Helpful ReplyHot![FAQ]Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway?

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@JDP
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2016/04/21 04:09:00 (permalink)
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Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway?

 
The RN2xx3 family of products are designed to support the LoRaWAN open standard as published by the LoRa Alliance. The LoRaWAN architecture dictates a hierarchical structure of gateways and network/application servers and has no concept of P2P communication. It is defined this way to support IoT applications where connection to the internet is fundamental, and it also offers the scalability to support the billions of IoT nodes predicted the next few years. 
 
A good analogy is walkie-talkies versus cell phones. Walkie-talkies have their uses, they are simple and can be very low cost, they serve a purpose ... but what do all of us have in our pockets today = cell phones. The scalability was fundamental to their dominant success and the same will be true for IoT. 
 
Microchip is a founder member of the LoRa Alliance and the LoRa product line is fundamentally aligned with LoRaWAN protocol. Although the underlying modem hardware would be capable of P2P links using LoRa modulation, and some users have had some success using 'radio' test modes to achieve that, Microchip are not promoting or supporting P2P. 
post edited by @JDP - 2016/04/21 04:10:16
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roundrocktom
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Re: Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway? 2016/04/21 05:36:03 (permalink)
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UPDATE:  Delete this post as the modules can be used in Walkie-Talkie mode. Peer to Peer.  Didn't realize that
post edited by roundrocktom - 2016/04/21 08:26:36
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Re: Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway? 2016/04/29 07:18:07 (permalink)
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roundrocktom
UPDATE:  Delete this post as the modules can be used in Walkie-Talkie mode. Peer to Peer.  Didn't realize that


Yes you are right, but if your module is used in P2P mode, it is not a LoRaWAN device anymore (just talking LoRa with another device), and so it can not communicate with a gateway.
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@JDP
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Re: Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway? 2016/04/29 08:35:08 (permalink)
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... "Although the underlying modem hardware would be capable of P2P links using LoRa modulation, and some users have had some success using 'radio' test modes to achieve that, Microchip are not promoting or supporting P2P"
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CodePlayer
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Re: Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway? 2016/11/17 08:18:07 (permalink)
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If one were to use two RN2483 devices to create a P2P link, it would use FSK modulation and not spread-spectrum?
 
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manu harshan
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Re: Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway? 2016/11/20 18:48:12 (permalink)
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i'm new with this RN2483 modem how could i get technical support from microchip?
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qhb
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Re: Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway? 2016/11/20 20:01:33 (permalink)
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manu harshan
i'm new with this RN2483 modem how could i get technical support from microchip?


Register and open a support ticket at:
http://microchip.com/support
 
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Tim Cruise
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Re: Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway? 2017/08/20 03:19:15 (permalink)
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Hello JDP,
It may be a selling point for the new product.  We can discuss or even cooperate if you are interested.  Smile: Smile
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riteshsingh
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Re: Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway? 2017/09/05 05:40:49 (permalink)
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I am using Lorawan library on RN2483 and trying to call lorawan_send inside the while loop after calling lorawan_mainloop (as suggested inside lorawan configuration guide). But, I can see just one message on Gateway (unpredictable) and can not send further messages. Did anyone used it and can see frequent messages for testing? If yes, what is the sequence of calls and data rate, duty cycle for EU868.
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extronic
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Re: Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway? 2018/09/22 14:23:08 (permalink)
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How to connect two modules? Is it possible to perform a scan to find other modules in neighborhood like Bluetooth modules do?
 
(I've never used LoRa before and don't have any RN2483 bought yet to test it)
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RISC
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Re: Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway? 2018/09/22 14:31:58 (permalink)
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Hi,
There are people on internet that published some projects using RN2483 in P2P mode using LoRa modulation :
https://github.com/jpmeijers/RN2483-Arduino-p2p-examples/blob/master/Blinker/README.md
Regards
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Nigristriata
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Re: Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway? 2018/10/29 10:09:55 (permalink)
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riteshsingh
[...] I can see just one message on Gateway (unpredictable) and can not send further messages. [...]


I had a similar problem while trying to send P2P.
The datasheet states
Note: The mac pause command must be called before any radio transmission
or reception, even if no MAC operations have been initiated before.

Now I send "mac pause" before every "radio tx" and it's working p2p.
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Chris A
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Re: Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway? 2018/10/29 10:26:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Nigristriata 2018/10/31 14:24:35
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Nigristriata
Now I send "mac pause" before every "radio tx" and it's working p2p.

oh, I don't have that issue.  I even put the module to sleep and wake with break and then radio tx without sending another mac pause.
I did have to update all modules to latest firmware before anything would talk!
 
The biggest issue using p2p is having to place the module into rx mode with radio rx and a timeout. It adds a big load of complexity compared to it 'watching' all the time or until you stop it!
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extronic
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Re: Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway? 2018/10/29 10:30:08 (permalink)
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How many modules do you connect without a gateway? Do you use only one channel, SF, BW, CR. If a packet sent from one module is lost do you try other channel or just try again with the same settings some time later?
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Nigristriata
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Re: Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway? 2018/10/31 14:35:07 (permalink)
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Chris A
I did have to update all modules to latest firmware before anything would talk!

I did not update until now, maybe that's the reason for the different behaviour.
After power on it says "chip version: RN2483 1.0.4 Oct 12 2017 14:59:25"
So I will do an update soon - can't be bad.
 
@ extronic: I'm just starting, having nearly no experience with such modules.
Currently I have just one RaspBerry Zero talking with one ATtiny817 using RN2483 modules point-to-point.
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Chris A
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Re: Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway? 2018/11/01 01:27:39 (permalink)
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Nigristriata
After power on it says "chip version: RN2483 1.0.4 Oct 12 2017 14:59:25"

That's the version I'm using and was the latest last time I checked.
 
Edit:
I also found pushing up the baud rate to 128000 (and maybe also 115200) had the module missing chars in the data.  Decided to stick with the 57600baud default in the end which is a shame as the over the air time can be very long at bigger Spreading factors so I wanted to minimise the overall time.
post edited by Chris A - 2018/11/01 04:50:03
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Nigristriata
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Re: Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway? 2018/11/03 05:00:07 (permalink)
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Instead this could be seen as an argument that reducing the UART transmission time between controller and module is not very important. It would be just kind of drop in the ocean.
 
Here's an overview of some times I observed in my current example, maybe it's of interest for someone.

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extronic
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Re: Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway? 2018/11/04 09:49:27 (permalink)
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Did you try to measure how much time it takes to transmit a payload? After you sent 'radio tx 0001' you got 'ok' at 69ms and 'radio_tx_ok' at 896ms. Does it mean that the module was transmitting two bytes for a period of 827ms? It's ridiculous. Can you measure power consumption of RN2483 and try to add it to this chart? This way we should see how long the radio in on. What radio parameters have you used during this test? Try to compare LoRa at SF12, which should be the slowest and FSM modulation at 200000 bitrate, which is maximum. 
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Nigristriata
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Re: Can two RN2483 (or RN2903) modems communicate point-to-point (P2P) without a gateway? 2018/11/04 10:07:55 (permalink)
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I used default parameters (e.g. SF12). Ok, it takes a long time for a few bytes but the achieved distance is great.
Here is a table how parameters should affect on air time:
http://cpham.perso.univ-p...LORA/resources/toa.jpg
 
I will do those measurements because I'm also very interested in optimizing power requirements. But it may take a few weekends until I have the time.
 
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