AnsweredPICkit3 not detecting target device

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ric
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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/13 22:44:41 (permalink)
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kr narendra
Hi NorthGuy,
Until i get a new working pickit3, i have no choice to update the firmware of non-working pickit3. I will have to wait for at least one week to get new.

 
What is stopping you from trying to update the firmware in your old PK3?
This is done via MPLAB, not by using an external programmer.
 

Hi Ian.M,
Yesterday you had told that "PGD, PGC and LVP have 4K7 pulldowns so wont float as inputs.  Use a 1K resistor to pull them up to Vdd to test.  They should go from '0' to '1' when  you connect the pullup."
 
I had gone through datasheet of PIC24FJ256GA412/GB412 FAMILY. Its clearly mentioned under section "2.5 ICSP Pins" (page number 54) as follows
"Pull-up resistors, series diodes and capacitors on the PGECx and PGEDx pins are not recommended as they will interfere with the programmer/debugger communications to the device. If such discrete components are an application requirement, they should be removed from the circuit during programming and debugging."
 
I am a little bit confused which design i should go with.

Ian is NOT suggesting you make these pull up resistors part of your board design.
He wants you to temporarily connect a pullup resistor to test your PICkit3's circuitry, with it NOT connected to your board. This is while using the standalone PK3 control program to manually toggle the pins.
Have another read of precisely what he asked you to do.
 




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kr narendra
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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/13 23:40:08 (permalink)
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I am extremely sorry. I might have misunderstood Ian's reply and therefore mentioned if i would have misunderstood in my earlier reply. I will go through the reply again precisely.
 
As far as updating the firmware of non-working pickit3 is concerned, i was thinking if i needed to update the firmware like the steps given in "http://www.mbedded.ninja/programming/microcontrollers/pic-and-dspic-family/how-to-unbrick-a-pickit-3"and that's why i told that i needed to wait until i get working pickit3.
post edited by kr narendra - 2016/01/14 00:07:03
#22
ric
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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/14 00:36:47 (permalink)
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If your PK3 is showing up as a USB device on your PC, it is NOT "bricked".
"Bricked" means it is totally not working.
 

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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/14 00:41:12 (permalink)
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What is stopping you from trying to update the firmware in your old PK3?

 
Ric, can you please share with us where to get the latest firmware suite *.JAR files with which to update the PK3? 
 
The latest one I have is 01.34.11, and for the life of me I can't figure out where I got any of these files, to begin wtih. I'm probably missing something obvious. I'm using 8.9. So maybe X downloads these files automatically or something.
#24
ric
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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/14 00:42:25 (permalink)
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They come with MPLAB/MPLABX
 

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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/14 00:46:09 (permalink)
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So... I download a fresh copy of MPLAB 8.9 (haha, just kidding. Not updated in years).
 
So... I download and reinstall the latest version of X in order to get the latest JAR files? Seems like there is an easier way, because that's not how I got my current JAR files. Heck, I don't really remember. Maybe someone shared a link on the forum? 
 
OP has got 01.39.xx, so I know I'm not up to date. And I have some bugs I hope have been addressed.
 
I don't want to derail the thread, but everytime I have asked in the last few months, all I get are blank stares and told that the firmware updates automatically when you change device family.
post edited by kl27x - 2016/01/14 00:49:13
#26
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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/14 00:57:53 (permalink)
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I'm also missing some revisions. One of the programmers I bought had firmware suite 1.29.xx. I have some earlier revisions and some later revisions. It seems odd that these come with MPLAB, but I would be missing one in the middle.
 
Any chance there's a Microchip page that lists any information on firmware suite versions?
post edited by kl27x - 2016/01/14 01:01:32
#27
Ian.M
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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/14 01:02:03 (permalink)
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The jar files need to fairly closely match the MPLAB (8 or X) version, otherwise MPLAB's PICkit 3 driver will get very confused when commands don't work as expected.  To prevent mismatches, Microchip supply the jar files with MPLAB. 
 
Edit: as has been pointed out below, the actual firmware has historically been in jam files, which *may* be packaged inside jar files - however my point still stands as the PICkit 3 firmware must operate as the MPLAB driver expects.
post edited by Ian.M - 2016/01/14 03:13:18

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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/14 01:06:32 (permalink)
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The PK3 FW is in a ".JAM" file, but I suspect that is inside one of the JAR files.
According to C:\Program Files (x86)\Microchip\MPLABX\v3.15\docs\Readme for PICkit 3.htm

 PICkit 3 Suite (OS, FW)    v01.40.05   (PK3FW_014005.jam)

 
The only plainly visible JAM file on my PC is at:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Microchip\MPLAB IDE\PICkit 3\PK3FW_012890.jam
 
So the latest one must be in an archive somewhere.
 

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#29
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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/14 01:23:35 (permalink)
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.. Damn. I've been downloading X 3.15 for the last 45 minutes. (I guess I'm way out of date. The file is almost 4 times as big as the last version I installed).
 
I guess maybe the numbers aren't sequential and should be used just used with the version of MPLAB that they came with. I may have a peek at the Readme's, myself.
 
*Edit, oh, I see the readme states 01.40... so that's not it. Well, if you run across it, please post. I'll check on this thread!
 
Thanks
:)
 
post edited by kl27x - 2016/01/14 01:26:05
#30
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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/14 01:39:04 (permalink)
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BTW, if anyone wants one of these, PM me.
 
01.26.26
01.28.38
01.28.40
01.34.11
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kr narendra
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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/14 03:52:22 (permalink)
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Now i understood what Ian actually meant and had standalone test with my pickit3. i had used logic tool and followed the procedure what Ian had mentioned. At all points pickit3 behaved same what Ian had mentioned. I had tested using 1K pullup at PGD and PGC and it measured 3.65V for Vdd 4.7V. then i had test for MCLR by selecting particular device and reading the flash. The voltage across MCLR reached to 13V and later fell down to 0V. Then i had tested using my hardware but its not detecting the device now also. I don't know what's going wrong.
 
Does firmware updating means that USB connecting to pickit3 and the selecting the required device to be programmed? If so i am always getting firmware update message like
 
Connecting to MPLAB PICkit 3...

Currently loaded firmware on PICkit 3
Firmware Suite Version.....01.28.90 *
Firmware type..............dsPIC33F/24F/24H

Now Downloading new Firmware for target device: PIC24FJ256GB406
Downloading bootloader
Bootloader download complete
Programming download...
Downloading RS...
RS download complete
Programming download...
Downloading AP...
AP download complete
Programming download...

Currently loaded firmware on PICkit 3
Firmware Suite Version.....01.39.15
Firmware type..............dsPIC33F/24F/24H
 
Target voltage detected
Target Device ID (0x0) does not match expected Device ID (0x61140000).

The following memory area(s) will be programmed:
program memory: start address = 0x0, end address = 0x5bff

Device Erased...

Programming...
Failed to program device


#32
kl27x
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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/14 05:04:59 (permalink)
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When I use my older version of IPE, I think I only get one message showing the firmware suite. But then again, I haven't changed device families in a long time.
 
Anyway, if I go into MPLAB (IDE) and select PK3 and then go into settings, I can manually change the firmware suite. A list of different files show up in or around the PK3 folder. And after doing this, that is the number that first shows up, forevermore, when I connect that PK3 in IPE. That would be 01.34.11, which is higher than 01.29.xx, w/e that may mean.
 
I think I added some of these files from other versions of MPLAB support files, maybe. But I can choose between them, and there are definitely improvements between some of the versions. At least one bug fix that I have noticed, anyway. There might be more info in a readme file.
 
I don't really understand the deal with PK3, either. I'm stumbling through this, myself. I admit I haven't read through the readme files, and it's been awhile since I tried (and failed) to reach for lower lying fruit.
 
Somewhere, someone on a forum must have shared how to upgrade firmware suites, because I didn't spontaneously learn how to do this myself. I'm not that smart. But it seems like no one who cares knows what I'm talking about, anymore, lol.
 
post edited by kl27x - 2016/01/14 05:13:12
#33
kl27x
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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/14 05:24:27 (permalink)
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Hang on.  I could be wrong, but I think it's coming back to me.
 
One of those bugs could have been what your PK3 is doing. Are you using IPE?
 
I think I remember some of my PK3's give something like those messages when I tried to connect in IPE and failed. "Downloading RS" something or other, and then a new firmware suite number. But then it didn't work.
 
Upgrading the firmware suite manually fixed this.
 
My memory appears to be foggy. Perhaps scarred from the trauma of figuring this out. If you want my latest jar file, pm me. It's only 1kb. I could email it.   
 
edit* In fact, I printed a label and stuck it on the back of my PK3, and I can still read it.
[this is my note to self]:
"FW 01.34.11 must be installed in MPLAB 8 to switch btn families. P2G feature must be set in MPLAB IPE."
If I was thorough, and I believe I might have been, this means that all my other FW suite versions COULD NOT switch between families in IPE; that ended in fail and gave messages that might or might not have been highly similar to yours. If I was not so thorough, then that still suggests there was at least one bad firmware. (Your FW version is higher than my next highest number, FWIW.)
 
**additional info:
I also seem to recall that most or all of my PK3 clones needed upgrade to work properly, and especially certain that my genuine one failed out of the box. That's the one labeled.
 
I can also tell you that I recently bought my first Sure Electronics version just to see, and it came with FW suite 01.29.xx. And it, too, failed in IPE.
 
Additional info on Sure Electronics clone: It failed with VDD error, but after fixing that, it failed the first 3 times I plugged it in; it downloaded some new firmware each time with a new message and fail to connect, before it finally connected on the fourth try. Then I tried P2G, and it failed to load the image. After updating it to 01.34.11, it completed loading a P2G image, but it completely failed to work in practice; the LEDs blinked when the button was pressed but they didn't act right (like my genuine and other cloes) and the chips did not get flashed. So my Sure Electronics clone is so far my worst PK3. 
post edited by kl27x - 2016/01/14 05:53:59
#34
kr narendra
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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/14 06:02:15 (permalink)
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Can you please tell me the procedure or some link where i can get it to manually upgrade the firmware? Still i don't know what do you meant by this. I was thinking if you meant to upgrade firmware same as when pickit3 is bricked but Ric replied it to be different.
 
Another thing i want to know what is this FW 01.34.11?
 
I am using MPLAB X IDE V3.10
Did you mean by IPE to be MPLAB IPE? If so i haven't used that.
#35
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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/14 06:24:27 (permalink)
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There is one final check to detect blown drivers on the PICkit 3 Vpp pin.

Pop the PICkit 3 case open,  and measure the voltage across R42, (or from VPP to Q7 collector) while doing the baseline erase test described earlier with NO load resistor.  If either Q6 or Q7 is leaky,  there will be a non-zero voltage across R42 while Vpp is on.   If it passed the previous test, there cant be a lot of leakage so you certainly wont see over 5V across R42, but apart from a momentary spike at turnoff, there shouldn't be *ANY* voltage there.  That eliminates the case I mentioned earlier where the Vpp hardware was good enough for the v3.10 app, but not good enough for MPLAB X.
 
At that point the most likely cause is corrupted firmware.  You need to force a firmware update.   Create/Open a project for a completely different device family - I suggest baseline because it doesn't check the device ID.   Force bootloader mode by holding the button down while plugging in the USB cable, with no target connected.  Attempt to read the non-existent device.  Some or all of the firmware modules will update.  If it stalls, wait 5 minutes, exit MPLAB, unplug and replug the PICkit 3 WITHOUT holding the button down and restart MPLAB and try again.  When its got the baseline firmware installed, make sure supply target power is enabled, and it should complete the read without errors.   Now you can switch back to your real project and the firmware update for your actual processor should be accepted.   
 
Have you got a Microchip demo or development board with a PIC24FJ....GB... chip?  If so, can you program that?  If you can, odds are your PIC24FJ256GB406 boards are faulty, or their Vdd is out of spec for programming or the PIC24FJ256GB406 chips themselves are damaged.

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#36
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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/14 06:39:46 (permalink)
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I've checked the MPLAB X release notes (vers 3.10 - 3.20) for known issues that could cause failure to program a PIC24FJ....GB.... device using a PICkit 3:
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/mplabx-ide-v3.10-release-notes-00.zip
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/mplabx-ide-v3.15-release-notes-00.zip
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/mplabx-ide-v3.20-release-notes-00.zip
No issues found. 

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kr narendra
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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/14 07:00:38 (permalink)
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Thanks a lot Ian.M for you detailed explanations and attaching the release notes. I will go in detail of the release notes and also have the test you have specified.
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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/14 11:13:50 (permalink)
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Hi,
Trying to program a dsPIC33EP64GS502 with PICkit3 (supplying Vdd = 3.3V) under MpLabX  IPE 3.20. The "led" at name of the part is yellow. The result is "Target Device ID does not match expected device ID (0x4e210000). ..." This PICkit3 can program a PIC16F18323. On the other hand the dsPIC33EP64GS502 on its board can be programmed with a modified PICkit2 (supplying Vdd = 3.3V). How can a picture be inserted here?
 
The PIC24FJ256GB406 has yellow "led" as well.
post edited by scasis - 2016/01/14 11:15:04
#39
kl27x
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Re: PICkit3 not detecting target device 2016/01/14 12:30:30 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby kr narendra 2016/01/18 00:32:51
5 (1)
I think this might just possibly be firmware suite problem. Because as stated, the issue is that the device cannot change device family. So it can program only one family of PIC.
 
IPE is "Integrated Programming Environment." It comes with MPLAB X. I don't use X IDE, so I don't know if the problem would manifest as the same in X IDE or not.
 
In 8, you select from the toolbar:
1.programmer > select programmer > Pk3
 
2.programmer > settings >(new window pops up) > hit "configuration" tab > click "manual download" button.
... this opens up the PK3 folder. On my default install, this is C: > Program files (x86) > Microchip > MPLAB IDE > PK3 folder. In here should be at least one file, PK3FW_01xxxx.jam (yes, it is jam file, not jar, sorry), size 1kb. Click on it, and it will install.
 
I'd maybe try finding your PK3 folder. I wonder if somewhere in your MPLAB there is some firmware in there that matches the second number you are seeing, which is the 01.39.xx number. Perhaps IPE and X try to autoinstall this device family firmware, but when it does not match the firmware suite that came preinstalled with your PK3, this may be contributing to the failure.
 

"What is 01.34.11?" I think this is the FW suite version that came with MPLAB X 2.26. So nah, after reading Ian's post and editing this one, I don't think you want this.
 
(Going back in the thread, I missed Ian M's post. It appears that the PK3 firmware should be matched to the file in your version of MPLAB IDE. If there's a way to manually install this in X, that's what I would try to do. It seems like for me, I had to do this BEFORE the device family FW autochange would work.)
 
I have reflashed one of my PK3's with the full firmware image, using another programmer. It took like 2 minutes to burn! This didn't fix any of my problems. I still had to manual download the firmware suite, after, in IDE (Again, I use 8, not X).
 
BTW, in my version of X, if you manage to erase the IPE shortcut from your desktop, I can find no way to launch IPE. So if you cleaned up your shortcuts, you might not be able to know you even have IPE installed. No executable appears in my Windows Start > Microchip folder to launch IPE. I reinstalled X to get this stupid shortcut, back. In all, I probably spent 20 hours to make my first genuine PK3 to work.
 
 
post edited by kl27x - 2016/01/14 13:34:05
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