ICD 4 (and picKIT 4) visible to Windows Device Manager but not MPLAB X

I've got an ICD 4 (and a PICkit4 and a PICkit3) that shows up in Windows Device Manager as a "Microchip WinUSB Device" but doesn't show up in MPLAB X on one machine (Dell XPS 13) but shows up in MPLAB X fine on another (Lenovo ThinkPad T480) and does a little of both in MPLAB X on an older ThinkPad W510.
 
I originally ran into this problem a while back (2018) on the W510 when I migrated (as late as possible) from MPLAB 8 to MPLAB X.  Windows always saw my devices.  MPLAB 8 always saw them.  But MPLAB X sometimes did and sometimes didn't.  After much hair pulling I found that the W510 had 2 blue high speed USB 3 ports and 1 yellow USB 2(?) port.  Anytime I used the blue high speed ports, all of the Microchip dev tools I have were visible to Windows and MPLAB 8 but not MPLAB X.  But when I used the slower (?) yellow one all worked well.  So I just used that port.  Problem solved or close enough.
 
Then I started using a T480 with a pair of black USB ports and a pair of USB C ports and everything just worked.  All USB ports work.  No fuss, no muss.
 
Now I'm trying to migrate to a Dell XPS 13 that only has 3 USB C ports, plus, via TB16 Thunderbolt Dock, several blue high speed USB ports - and I'm back to Windows seeing any and all of the devices (so says Device Manger) in any of the USB ports but MPLAB X refuses to see any of them, ever.
 
I can't imagine that USB 3, USB C or "higher speeds" are the problem or folks would be screaming about problems en mass.  I chalked the W510's problems up to a "bleeding edge" (for its time) chip set or something.  And while the XPS's Thunderbolt support is not quite where everybody's at, it's a far cry from bleeding edge.  And I'm stumped.
 
All machines are running Windows 10 64 bit with MPLAB X IDE v5.45
 
Any thoughts, suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.
 

I started to reply that USB power couldn't be the problem since their indicator lights flash, turn blue and stay on like they're supposed to, etc. (which is almost certainly true) when I caught myself wanting to say "and MPLAB 8 sees 'em" but, this being a new machine, I'd never needed or installed MPLAB 8.  So, while this appeared to the the same problem from the W510 in 2018...  Maybe not.
 
So I installed MPLAB 8 and it doesn't appear support the ICD 4 or PICkit 4.  But it saw the PICkit 3 just fine.  Then I went back to MPLAB X and now it also saw the PICkit 3.  Hmm.
 
I unplugged the PICkit 3 and plugged in the PICkit 4 and BOOM, MPLAB X went off the rails and "zombified."  That is, the dialog it had open to select a programming/debugging tools just vanished of its own accord and then couldn't be summoned again.  I tried to close/restart MPLAB X but even its close button in the upper right was broken (flickering red at the mouse rather than staying red while the mouse is present) and unresponsive.  Clicked close a bunch and then gave it a few minutes.  Finally gave up and just restarted the machine.
 
Then MPLAB X would see the PICkit 4 but absolutely refuses to work with it.  Lots of log delays, hangs, zombified UI and the, apparently very famous, "Reception on endpoint 129 failed (err = -10121)" error.  I found that all over the forums with little help till I found this entry: https://www.microchip.com/forums/m1129490.aspx?tree=true which lead me to this entry: https://www.microchip.com/forums/m1128487-p2.aspx#1128717
 
Apparently the problem, or at least one of them, is conflicting Microsoft and Microchip WinUSB drivers.  Sure enough my PICkit 4 was using the Microsoft one.  Redirected it to the Microchip one installed with MPLAB X and...  No help.  Same problem.  MPLAB X makes some connections to the PICkit 4 for status and such then fails with "endpoint 129" errors.
 
After some hours fighting with that, I tried my ICD 4. MPLAB X both sees it (with the Microchip WinUSB driver) and can use it.  Woot!  So...  The "Windows see the devices but MPLAB X doesn't" problem is essentially solved but I'm still unclear what actually fixed it.  My guess is that installing good 'ol MPLAB 8 installed or configured a driver or some such.  Or, could be that the machine was in a sad state (sometimes days or weeks between reboots) and maybe the reboot fixed it - tech support 101, precisely because sometimes it actually works.  Dunno.  But I'm moving forward and still have no idea why the PICkit 4 won't work.  Weird...
 
 

Windstone,
Can you confirm if on your PCs only MPLAB X is installed or also MPLAB ?
If you have both, the you MUST use the utility called Driver switcher as the drivers are different between both versions of MPLAB X and MPLAB
Regards
 

The machines where the ICD4/PICkit4 works have both MPLAB 8 and MPLAB X installed, and installed in that order.
The machine where they were seen by Windows (Device Manager) but not by MPLAB X only ever had various versions of MPLAB X installed.  But then I installed MPLAB 8, since that was one of the few differences between the working and non-working machines.  Once the older MPLAB 8 was installed, everything started working as expected.  No Device Switcher, no nothing.  I don't see how installing the older version of MPLAB could have fixed things but it seems to have.