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Helpful ReplyHot!MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead

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dan1138
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/17 10:02:45 (permalink)
+2 (2)
NorthGuy
The problem is not that old tools are dropped. That's normal. The problem is that new tools are inferior to the old. We've seen this with MPLAB X replacing MPLAB 8. We're now seeing it with MPASM.



I do agree but to make an assembler worse than MPASM does take a "special" effort. :)
#21
NKurzman
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/17 11:28:51 (permalink)
0
Microchip has made it clear over the years that they do not want to support multiple tool chains. Nor release source code for programs to the public.
As far as old app notes and datasheets, I’m guessing they’re not going to touch them.
They tend not to touch them as it is.
I do find it annoying that this time they did not give advance notice. I hope that will not be a future theme.
#22
nigelwright7557
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/17 19:35:50 (permalink)
+1 (1)
NorthGuy
The problem is not that old tools are dropped. That's normal. The problem is that new tools are inferior to the old. We've seen this with MPLAB X replacing MPLAB 8. We're now seeing it with MPASM.
 

The problem with MPLAB X is its complexity and also the limited budget Microchip can put into it.
Some problems you can throw infinite amounts of money at and still not be perfect.
Harmony is just massive. But they had to compete with ATMEL dev software.
 
#23
ric
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/17 19:40:34 (permalink)
+1 (1)
Bu then they bought Atmel, and forced the Atmel users over to MPLABX .....
 

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#24
1and0
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/17 20:26:48 (permalink)
+4 (4)
... a vast project with half-vast ideas. ;)
 
#25
andersm
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/18 01:20:54 (permalink)
+1 (1)
ricBu then they bought Atmel, and forced the Atmel users over to MPLABX .....

Only those who for some reason feel compelled to always and only use vendor tools for everything. Especially for ARM devices there's a whole universe of options to choose from.
#26
crosland
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/18 03:04:26 (permalink)
+5 (7)
NorthGuy
The problem is that new tools are inferior to the old. We've seen this with MPLAB X replacing MPLAB 8. 

Despite all it foibles I prefer X to 8, by a very wide margin.
 
nigelwright7557
The problem with MPLAB X is its complexity and also the limited budget Microchip can put into it.

It's mostly NetBeans. If they had written a new IDE from the ground up it would be much worse.
#27
Jon_S
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/18 05:43:01 (permalink)
+1 (1)
crosland
Despite all it foibles I prefer X to 8, by a very wide margin.
 

 
Agreed, but I really wish they'd fix the basic bugs. It still has the red squiggly problem, and it's infuriating. I know I can Code Assistance -> Reparse Project, but I shouldn't have to.
Plus, many bugs that require closing and re-opening the application to fix. Especially when debugging.
 
post edited by Jon_S - 2020/05/18 05:45:49
#28
Jim Nickerson
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/18 06:24:39 (permalink)
0
Jon_S
crosland
Despite all it foibles I prefer X to 8, by a very wide margin.
 

 
Agreed, but I really wish they'd fix the basic bugs. It still has the red squiggly problem, and it's infuriating. I know I can Code Assistance -> Reparse Project, but I shouldn't have to.
Plus, many bugs that require closing and re-opening the application to fix. Especially when debugging.
 


As I recall X used to do an auto reparse after many operations ( it got rid of the squigglys ) but there were quite a few complaints about how long it took.
To speed up things auto reparse is now a manual operation
#29
NorthGuy
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/18 07:54:11 (permalink)
+1 (1)
crosland
Despite all it foibles I prefer X to 8, by a very wide margin.



It probably depends on what you're doing. MPLAB 8 was fast and had very nice memory views. More importantly it worked. I don't recall losing any time dealing with MPLAB 8 malfunctions. I still use it where I can. In fact, I used it a lot last week.
 
I don't use MPLAB X very extensively, but still if you sum up all the time I had to spend dealing with malfunctions, it'll probably amass to days. It got better now - less bugs, some things got faster. But still not on MPLAB 8 level. If I had to work with it every day, I'm sure I would switch to a text editor fairly quickly.
 
#30
dan1138
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/18 08:51:09 (permalink)
+3 (3)
What I find shocking is that after years of work MPLABX still does not do a better job of in-circuit-debug than an IDE that has not been maintained in a decade.
#31
jdeguire
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/18 11:38:09 (permalink)
+3 (3)
Jon_S
crosland
Despite all it foibles I prefer X to 8, by a very wide margin.
 

 
Agreed, but I really wish they'd fix the basic bugs. It still has the red squiggly problem, and it's infuriating. I know I can Code Assistance -> Reparse Project, but I shouldn't have to.
Plus, many bugs that require closing and re-opening the application to fix. Especially when debugging.



Unfortunately, that's probably not going to change until Microchip moves from Netbeans 8 to something newer.  MPLAB X relies on the Netbeans C/C++ support to do that parsing and I suspect that may be where a lot of the issues lie.  As of right now, the newest Netbeans, version 11.3, still uses the Netbeans 8.2 C/C++ plugin and so moving upward probably isn't worth it yet from that standpoint.  Netbeans 8.2 does claim to support C++11, so that would be ahead of MPLAB X (NB 8.0.1) if true since MPLAB X definitely does not support C++11, but still probably not fully worth the move just yet.
 
A few years ago, Oracle started handing Netbeans over to the Apache Foundation in pieces.  Netbeans 8.2 is the last Oracle version.  The C/C++ support was one of the last pieces handed over to Apache and so from what I've seen it still needs to be integrated.  It's still the NB 8.2 plugin, however.
 
I believe newer Netbeans does support the Language Server Protocol, so that may be a way to bypass the lackluster Netbeans parser, though I don't know enough about LSP to say.  I think MPLAB X would need to ship with Clangd to make that work (not that I'd mind).
 
All that said, I vastly prefer MPLAB X to 8.
#32
GlennP
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/18 15:01:36 (permalink)
0
Has anyone gotten MPLabX 5.40 to build a project that uses MPASM 5.87?
 
Thanks,
GlennP
#33
dan1138
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/19 12:07:14 (permalink)
+2 (2)
Big disclaimer: I HAVE NOT TRIED THIS!
 
It seems possible that if one were to copy the "<YourInstallPathMyVary>\MPLABX\v5.35\mpasmx" folder to the "<YourInstallPathMyVary>\MPLABX\v5.40\" it may be possible to get the IDE to make MPASM available using the :Tools:Options:Embedded:Build Tools: dialog to add it in to the NetBeans tool chain list by selecting the "<YourInstallPathMyVary>\MPLABX\v5.40\mpasmx" as the Base Directory.
post edited by dan1138 - 2020/05/19 14:13:05
#34
GlennP
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/19 13:37:06 (permalink)
+1 (1)
Thanks.
 
I tried that and it failed.  But at the time my cache was in a questionable state, so I need to retry it.  The system in question is being backed-up at the moment, so I'll try after that's over.  Maybe two hours from now.
 
GP
 
P.S. I find the caches cost me more time than they save.  Whenever they get confused, it takes me a long time to determine I need to delete all four (two if you don't use the IPE) caches to get unconfused.
#35
GlennP
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/19 14:24:00 (permalink)
0
With a clean install of 5.40 and following Dan's suggestion, I cannot add mpasmx to the v5.40 IDE.  The complaint is "base directory does not contain a toolchain".
 
I assume this was done intentionally as a "favor" to us.
 
As a check, I used the v5.35 IDE and it was willing to add the mpasmx under v5.40.  This indicates to me there was no issue with how I put the old (5.87) assembler under 5.40.  It's purely a characteristic of the v5.40 IDE.
 
GlennP
#36
crennolet
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/19 16:00:37 (permalink)
+1 (1)
Oh, and if you do decide to switch to xc8 for assembly (using pic-as) by just renaming your assembly files *.s, and making major changes to them in order to get them to build, and then you want to do something rash like debug them -- it looks like the link between the editor and the debugger won't work. You'll have to debug entirely in the "program memory" view, and the editor window won't show the code you are executing.
#37
Jerry Messina
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/19 16:05:09 (permalink)
+2 (2)
V5.40 won't recognize ANY of my old external build tools, so it not seeing mpasmx doesn't surprise me.
 
Once again, it seems I've been "helped into the future". Thankfully though, I can now run all the tools I don't use for all the chips I don't use on all the OS's that I don't use.
 
#38
lcitos
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/22 01:58:55 (permalink)
-1 (1)
crosland
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I hate machine code!!! 


Assembler != machine code.


Assembler is the compiler, not the language. You mean assembly.
#39
Jerry Messina
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Re: MPLABX 5.40 out, MPASM dead 2020/05/22 02:28:30 (permalink)
+1 (1)
V5.40 won't recognize ANY of my old external build tools

Just to follow up... after a reinstall of v5.40 I was able to add all my old plugins so at least that part still works FWIW.
#40
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