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mpgmike
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2020/02/13 18:59:48 (permalink)
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Q43 "Quirks"

Started playing with the new PIC18F47Q43.  I couldn't help but notice a few oddities:
 
- No PMD2 (jumps from PMD1 to PMD3)
- To use DMA and CLC Registers, you first must configure DMASELECT/CLCSELECT Registers;
  *  Once a DMA/CLC Register is SELECTed, you then configure DMAnXXX / CLCnXXX Registers
 
I'm not complaining, but it is something new in the 8-bit PIC world.  Anybody else see something unusual?

I don't need the world to know my name, but I want to live a life so all my great-grandchildren proudly remember me.
#1

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    JPortici
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    Re: Q43 "Quirks" 2020/02/14 00:19:26 (permalink)
    +1 (3)
    You forgot the shitty datasheet where everything was ruined because a bunch of idiots that have clearly never read a technical document or a textbook are in charge (the reason why i will never EVER use the Q43 or the upcoming Q83, despite being the ideal parts for a few projects. Unusable documentation, unusable part.)
     
    PMD2 may be missing because in the "generic" description for the MCU family all the bits in PMD2 are for peripherals that are not implemented. Nothing new, they do it all the time in the 16/32 bit families.
    Other quirks in the past were needing to enable the peripheral before being able to set it up in some families, while other with apparently identical peripherals did not require that
    #2
    Jerry Messina
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    Re: Q43 "Quirks" 2020/02/14 03:25:34 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    Not really a quirk, but I noticed the Q43 "fixes" the issue introduced in the K42 where you had to use the three-word MOVFFL instruction to access SFR registers since they were outside the 4K region addressed with MOVFF.
    The SFR registers are now located at the beginning of RAM (from bank 0), so the "usable ram" now starts in bank 5, along with the lower access bank.
     
    I agree about the new datasheet format. I find it much harder to locate what I'm looking for.
    #3
    mpgmike
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    Re: Q43 "Quirks" 2020/02/14 04:38:40 (permalink)
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    Oh, and take a look at the .inc.  Which Bank did you say TMR0 was in???

    I don't need the world to know my name, but I want to live a life so all my great-grandchildren proudly remember me.
    #4
    Gort2015
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    Re: Q43 "Quirks" 2020/02/14 05:23:35 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    It's got color.
    Good register layout on this new design.
     
    I use Firefox for pdf docs, ctrl' F to find.

    MPLab X playing up, bug in your code? Nevermind, Star Trek:Discovery will be with us soon.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu1qa8N2ID0
    + ST:Continues, "What Ships are Made for", Q's back.
    #5
    1and0
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    Re: Q43 "Quirks" 2020/02/14 08:09:04 (permalink)
    +2 (2)
    Color is nice, but bring back the double-column datasheet format!
     
    #6
    AMAK
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    Re: Q43 "Quirks" 2020/02/14 10:21:40 (permalink)
    0 (2)
    Hi JPortici,
     
    What did you not like about the data sheet other than it not being in a two-column format? Why do you think the Q43 is unusable? Is it missing features or does it have too many features? 
     
    The new format was chosen because it now allows us to have the data sheets available online for easier access to the customers via tools like MPLABX. 
     
    Looking forward to your constructive feedback.
    post edited by AMAK - 2020/02/14 12:00:01
    #7
    1and0
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    Re: Q43 "Quirks" 2020/02/14 10:39:23 (permalink)
    +2 (2)
    Ashish_Makthal
    The new format was chosen because it now allows us to have the data sheets available online for easier access to the customers via tools like MPLABX. 

    ... and you cannot do that with the old format !?
    #8
    NorthGuy
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    Re: Q43 "Quirks" 2020/02/14 11:11:26 (permalink)
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    The memory mapping has been re-done quite a bit. SFRs are in the beginning. ACCESS now draws from bank 5, not 0 (unless you use XINST). All the important registers, such as WREG are in bank 4. I like that better. Looks like PIC18 gets finally liberated of contrived memory model which was suffocating from the beginning. Slowly. but surely :)
     
    The CLCSELECT and DMASELECT are like mini-banking for the SFRs. Saves a lot of SFR space. Also, now the same code can work with different object - just change the SELECT register. This is a nice feature too.
    #9
    mpgmike
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    Re: Q43 "Quirks" 2020/02/14 13:17:04 (permalink)
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    I suppose it didn't take a whole lot to get used to; it's just different than the familiar.  I think I know why the sales sheet on the Q10 looked virtually identical to the K42.  I believe they tried to utilize the new Qxx format on an existing platform, changing only Kxx -> Qxx platform ("change one thing at a time" concept).

    I don't need the world to know my name, but I want to live a life so all my great-grandchildren proudly remember me.
    #10
    mpgmike
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    Re: Q43 "Quirks" 2020/02/14 13:17:17 (permalink)
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    [Duplicate post]
    post edited by mpgmike - 2020/02/26 08:44:59

    I don't need the world to know my name, but I want to live a life so all my great-grandchildren proudly remember me.
    #11
    Jerry Messina
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    Re: Q43 "Quirks" 2020/02/14 17:31:33 (permalink)
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    mpgmike
    Oh, and take a look at the .inc.  Which Bank did you say TMR0 was in???



    In bank 3 with the rest of the timers? Am I missing something?
     
    #12
    1and0
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    Re: Q43 "Quirks" 2020/02/14 19:14:47 (permalink)
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    The only thing I see wrong with TMR0 is it's a "volatile unsigned char", instead of "volatile unsigned int". ;)
     
    Edit: I was looking at the .h file.  There is no TMR0 in the pic18f47q43.inc file; there are TMR0L and TMR0H.
     
    post edited by 1and0 - 2020/02/14 19:20:44
    #13
    Jerry Messina
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    Re: Q43 "Quirks" 2020/02/15 06:38:58 (permalink)
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    There is no TMR0 in the pic18f47q43.inc file; there are TMR0L and TMR0H.

     
    Ah, I see. I was looking in the MPASMX p18f47q43.inc file where you find:

    TMR0             EQU  H'0318'
    TMR0L            EQU  H'0318'
    PR0              EQU  H'0319'
    TMR0H            EQU  H'0319'

     
    In the register summary of the datasheet it doesn't list a "16-bit TMR0" register, just TMR0L/TMR0H.
    Oddly enough, for the other timers (TMR1, TMR3, etc) it doesn't list a L/H register pair, just a single "16-bit" register.
    #14
    Howard Long
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    Re: Q43 "Quirks" 2020/02/26 08:41:19 (permalink)
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    As far as I can tell from the accompanying sheet that came from my Digikey order, there is only ICD4 and PK4 support for this chip family at the moment at least under MPLAB 5.30. I tried, but can't get these devices to work on a Curiosity HPC PKOB3 for example. I can use them in an Curiosity HPC successfully when using a PK4 (didn't try the ICD4).
     
    If I look at the pkobskde.platformTool.xml file inside com-microchip-mplab-mdbcore-pkobskde.jar, it seems that the family might be supported on PKOB3 in the future.
     
    Edit: the newly released v5.35 doesn't work with gen 3 debugger/programmers either, with the same symptoms. I strongly suspect we're at the end of the line of enjoying universal programmers that work with all PIC devices.
    post edited by Howard Long - 2020/03/03 09:24:09
    #15
    Andy123
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    Re: Q43 "Quirks" 2020/03/08 18:09:00 (permalink)
    +2 (2)
    One thing I have found is that you cant just replace K40/K42/Q10 with Q43 because PPS features are not mapped to the same ports.
    For example, K42 has PWM available on Ports A and C, Q43 has PWM on B and C. So if PWM was mapped to Port A on K40/Q10, K42, then there is not way to use it on the same pin on Q43.
    Also, DAC is listed as buffered, while previous platforms require an external OP AMP.
    I assume that Q43 has an internal OPAMP or something.
    But I can’t find any information on the load.
    I tried to load it with 1K resistor @ 1.355V and it looks like holding output.
    #16
    sdn_
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    Re: Q43 "Quirks" 2020/03/14 12:38:50 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    Andy123
    .....
    For example, K42 has PWM available on Ports A and C, Q43 has PWM on B and C. 
    ....



    Using CLC cells, you can output the PWM signal to the pin of any port.



    #17
    MikaelNordman
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    Re: Q43 "Quirks" 2020/04/04 22:50:56 (permalink)
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    I am disapointed.
     
    Just finished updating mpasmx code to run on the Q43 and I found out that these chips are not well supported.
    - simulator does not work
      it does not address the new accessbank in h'460-h'4ff'
      using banked mode makes the simulator work.
    - pickit3 does not support the device
    - dissasembler shows access bank in bank 0xf.
     
    post edited by MikaelNordman - 2020/04/04 23:11:29
    #18
    Hen
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    Re: Q43 "Quirks" 2020/04/05 01:50:13 (permalink)
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    MikaelNordmanI am disapointed.

    Man kanske inte får allt?
     
    I can work the data sheet - nemas troublamos.
    At this level PIC18 may not get much better, without multicoring?
    Maybe utilize the access banks better, like not putting all the PWM:s there!?
     
    Now, this has probably no effect in the large perspective but maybe spiltting the various peripherials in two sections, one typically accessed once like CON:s and another where frequent accesses are done like IE/IF and such.
     
    Well, if you can get a PK4, do it its far better than PK3 and alot faster than PM3.
    #19
    Howard Long
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    Re: Q43 "Quirks" 2020/04/06 05:54:59 (permalink)
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    Regarding PICkit3 (and ICD3) not working, and whether PK4 is “far better”...

    PK3 & ICD3 are the tortoises, and PK4/ICD4 the hares. PK3/ICD3 worked with EVERYTHING and are generally RELIABLE. PK4/ICD4 have had numerous bugs either with the devices themselves or with the MPLAB X driver/firmware, and limited device support. I’ve never trusted PK4/ICD4 as a result. This includes PK4/ICD4 permanently bricking some older PICs requiring ~12v Vpp.

    I’ve spent too long in my career debugging debuggers. PK4/ICD4 would be faster if they worked reliably. But I’d rather use a tool that I know is going to work than one I always have to second guess.
    #20
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