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Helpful ReplyHot!dsPIC33CK64MP102 - Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID

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Antimatter
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2020/02/01 17:37:05 (permalink)
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dsPIC33CK64MP102 - Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID

I am at the very beginning of a new project. I just wired up a dsPIC33CK64MP102 chip. I am using a PICkit 3 as the programmer. I have a PIC18F97J60 running along side that will be interfaced later so I am very familiar with the ICSP hookup. I have double checked everything. I keep getting the error:


Target voltage detected
Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID. Please check your connections to the Target Device.
DEVSN0 = 00000000
DEVSN1 = 00000000
 
/MCLR is connected to Vpp (1)and to a 10K pull-up
PGC1 (18) is connected to PGC (5)
PGD1 (17) is connected to PGD (4)
GND and VDD are connected appropriately. 

I even tried a different chip. 

Perhaps I should be using different PGDx/PGCx pins? Or maybe I need a PICkit 4?

I used the IPE to play around with it and it seems that when I read the device it shows the FICD configuration bits set as 'none', 'reserved, do not use'. That would explain the lack of communication ...
post edited by Antimatter - 2020/02/01 19:01:26
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Antimatter
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Re: dsPIC33CK64MP102 - Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID 2020/02/01 19:50:20 (permalink)
4 (1)
Yah I found the problem. I didn't have the internal regulator pins hooked up to Vdd and Gnd. My mistake. Works great now. Never mind! :)
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Re: dsPIC33CK64MP102 - Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID 2020/02/02 05:08:04 (permalink)
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AntimatterI didn't have the internal regulator pins hooked up to Vdd and Gnd
Did you mean AVdd/AVss instead?
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Re: dsPIC33CK64MP102 - Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID 2020/02/02 14:43:13 (permalink)
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Actually, I found the problem from an outside article that mentioned the core ran on 1.2 volts and used an internal regulator so Vdd, 3.3V, can be used for supply power. It said AVdd, AVss required to operate the regulator which isn't entirely correct.

The datasheet does not mention that AVdd and AVss connection in the "GUIDELINES FOR GETTING STARTED WITH 16-BIT DIGITAL SIGNAL CONTROLLERS" section like you might think. The pins are only mentioned in the pin definition table. Since AVdd and AVss are analog peripheral supply pins why would one assume they needed to be hooked up if you don't intend on using the ADC? If it's not mentioned in the guidelines section then it shouldn't be required. However, since it is a absolute requirement then it needs to be in there.
 
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Re: dsPIC33CK64MP102 - Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID 2020/02/02 14:55:36 (permalink)
4 (1)
Antimatter
Actually, I found the problem from an outside article that mentioned the core ran on 1.2 volts and used an internal regulator so Vdd, 3.3V, can be used for supply power. It said AVdd, AVss required to operate the regulator which isn't entirely correct.

The datasheet does not mention that AVdd and AVss connection in the "GUIDELINES FOR GETTING STARTED WITH 16-BIT DIGITAL SIGNAL CONTROLLERS" section like you might think. The pins are only mentioned in the pin definition table. Since AVdd and AVss are analog peripheral supply pins why would one assume they needed to be hooked up if you don't intend on using the ADC? If it's not mentioned in the guidelines section then it shouldn't be required. However, since it is a absolute requirement then it needs to be in there.
 

Well, if the chip does not require Avdd ad Avss connected if not using the analogue functions then this will be the first Microchip PIC to be like htis. And considering that the chip powers up with analogue functions on a fair number of pins as default, it would surprise me if it can work without them connected.
 
I haven't looked, but do the Absolute Maximum table say about the relationship between Vdd and Avdd, and between Vss and Avss?
 

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Re: dsPIC33CK64MP102 - Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID 2020/02/02 15:10:13 (permalink)
4 (1)
One of the first diagrams you should look at in the datasheet.
"FIGURE 2-1:RECOMMENDED MINIMUM CONNECTION"
http://ww1.microchip.com/.../70005363b.pdf#page=18

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Re: dsPIC33CK64MP102 - Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID 2020/02/02 17:24:47 (permalink)
3 (2)
On previous chips, capacitors with a low ESR of 5 ohms or less were needed for avdd.
On these I use 5 x 100nF ceramic caps as in the specs.
 
Currently using a CH on a breadboard.
 
 

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Re: dsPIC33CK64MP102 - Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID 2020/02/16 14:28:17 (permalink)
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It doesn't say much. just:

Maximum current sunk by a group of I/Os between two VSS pins(4).......................................................................75 mA

Note 4 says this:
4: Not applicable to AVDD and AVSS pins.

The only indication that you have to connect the AVDD and AVSS is the note about bypass caps. But it really doesn't show where they are connected. Cryptic.


 
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Re: dsPIC33CK64MP102 - Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID 2020/02/16 14:36:23 (permalink)
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Further it says this in the "GUIDELINES FOR GETTING STARTED WITH 16-BIT DIGITAL SIGNAL CONTROLLERS" section:
 
The following is a list of pin names which must always
be connected:
• All VDD and VSS pins
(see Section 2.2 “Decoupling Capacitors”)

• All AVDD and AVSS pins
regardless if ADC module is not used (see
Section 2.2 “Decoupling Capacitors”)

• MCLR pin
(see Section 2.3 “Master Clear (MCLR) Pin”)
• PGCx/PGDx pins
used for In-Circuit Serial Programming™ (ICSP™)
and debugging purposes (see Section 2.4 “ICSP
Pins”)
• OSCI and OSCO pins
when an external oscillator source is used (see
Section 2.5 “External Oscillator Pins”)
2.2


BUT AT NO PLACE IN THE DATASHEET DOES IT SAY WHAT TO CONNECT AVDD and AVSS TO. I would normally assume they are connected to the reference voltage for the ADC which could be almost any value maybe even both being ground. 
#9
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Re: dsPIC33CK64MP102 - Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID 2020/02/16 14:48:21 (permalink)
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Antimatter
...
BUT AT NO PLACE IN THE DATASHEET DOES IT SAY WHAT TO CONNECT AVDD and AVSS TO. I would normally assume they are connected to the reference voltage for the ADC which could be almost any value maybe even both being ground. 

That is a very bad assumption.
They are power supply pins, which can optionally also be used as the analog references.
From the datasheet
Positive supply for analog modules. This pin must be connected at all times

You do need to use a little common sense here.
 
 

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Re: dsPIC33CK64MP102 - Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID 2020/02/16 16:29:11 (permalink)
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I'm just saying that one does not assume anything when designing. I missed the "must be connected" part, that's my mistake, but the datasheet should at least give a voltage range those pins can operate at. They aren't even listed in the max electrical spec. What is the range? Can AVss be negative? AVdd appears to be 3.3v since the 'Vdd part' but what's the max? I'm just sayin'.
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Re: dsPIC33CK64MP102 - Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID 2020/02/18 09:27:35 (permalink)
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Let's put this thing back on the feet.
Quoting the datasheet:
  • AVss/AVdd: "... This pin must be connected at all times."  (p. 16) So much about the "must be connected part".
  • Unfortunately the datasheet doesn't specify where to connect - not even wrt Vcc/Vss.
    And - as we all learn here every day - the term "common sense" does not apply on "Experienced hobbyists" and "EE students". Seems there are not the only ones . . .
  • To cut things short: you may have resistors of maybe 1 k each between Vdd and AVdd resp. Vss and AVss. Or ferrites of about the same series resistance. That's it.
    Expect the "allowable" voltage difference between Vss and AVss resp. Vdd and AVdd to be +- 0,3 V - less is better.

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Re: dsPIC33CK64MP102 - Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID 2020/02/18 12:24:14 (permalink)
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The clue is AVDD AVSS  What comes after 'A' is the power connection, that's why the diagram does not complete.
 
What color is an orange?

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Re: dsPIC33CK64MP102 - Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID 2020/02/18 13:19:17 (permalink)
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An orange? Green - until it get's some cold  :)
(You don't believe? Check @ wikipedia!)

PEBKAC / EBKAC / POBCAK / PICNIC (eventually see en.wikipedia.org)
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Re: dsPIC33CK64MP102 - Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID 2020/02/18 13:35:04 (permalink)
5 (1)
Gort2015
What color is an orange?

"Orange is a subtropical, not tropical fruit. The color of an orange depends on where it grows. In more temperate climes, its green skin turns orange when the weather cools; but in countries where it's always hot, the chlorophyll is preserved and the fruit stays green."
 
 
Anyway, AVdd and AVss are the power supply and ground for the analog section of the PIC device; they must be connected at all times. A clean analog supply is needed only if analog processing (such as ADC) is used; otherwise, the same digital supply can be connected to the analog supply pins.
 
When the analog section is used, you should have at least an inductor (ferrite bead) separating Vdd and AVdd. This is so that filter can be added for noise reduction; i.e. so that digital noise does not get coupled onto the analog circuit. In addition, connect a large capacitor between AVdd and AVss, and then a small bypass capacitor across AVdd and AVss close to the PIC device. The inductor is there to resist the instantaneous change in voltage on AVdd from Vdd during high speed digital switching. That way Vdd gets its current from Vdd and cannot pull it from AVdd since the inductor does not allow an instantaneous change in current. That is why capacitors must be connected after the inductor; otherwise, voltage problem will worsen as the AVdd/AVss pins draw varying amount of current.
 
I also recall reading that AVdd and Vdd voltages should be within ±0.2V of each other, and the same applies for AVss and Vss.
 
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Re: dsPIC33CK64MP102 - Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID 2020/02/18 13:48:07 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Antimatter 2020/03/13 11:05:08
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1and0
I also recall reading that AVdd and Vdd voltages should be within ±0.2V of each other, and the same applies for AVss and Vss.

I think this is the essential detail that SHOULD be in the datasheet, and we all remember reading it in older datasheets.
That is the OP's main beef, it is never spelt out in THIS datasheet.
 

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Re: dsPIC33CK64MP102 - Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID 2020/02/18 13:55:18 (permalink)
1 (2)
I've always avoided oranges in Supermarkets with any green on them.
It does affect the taste of Satsumas that I eat a lot.
 
Sometimes they are the best orange that you can eat, other times they do not taste the same, they lose their sweetness and taste.  Maybe it's down to the Season or Country of origin.

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