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Hot!Issue with MPLAB X connection to Pickit 3 via NEC USB 3.0 (no S/N ... no Connection)

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bxdobs
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2019/11/17 01:53:50 (permalink)
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Issue with MPLAB X connection to Pickit 3 via NEC USB 3.0 (no S/N ... no Connection)

Not expecting a solution here ... hoping this information may help others in the future who trip over this issue
 
Purchased a PicKit 3/PICDEM Lab kit a few years ago ... successfully used it a few times doing various automation projects then put it on the shelf. The other day I dusted it off because one of my kids is doing a project with PICs at College ... to my annoyance, I wasn't able to program any chips. After several hours (late nights) over the last 3 days, and a couple of W7 machines, my test results point at a possible issue between MPLAB X and the NEC 3.0 USB 3  driver ... Unfortunately, it appears the only solution is to use another machine with NON NEC ports. (unless you want to manually take the MPLAB X built Hex File and manually load it via the PICKIT V3.0 Software)
 
H/W S/W used in my tests:
- PC1: W7 Pro 64b with NEC 3.0 USB ports
- PC2: W7 Pro 64b with Intel 3.0 USB ports
- MPLAB X (all 3 versions have the same issue) v3.65, v4.05, and v5.30 (Microchip IDE Software)
- Pickit 3 (Pic Program/Debug interface)
- PICDEM LAB (Development Kit Board)
- USBView (1998 USB Device Scan Tool)
- PICKit 3 V3.0 (Software)
- 16F690, 16F88
 
Tests:
1) PC1: Pickit 3 shows up under the MPLAB X Project Hardware Tool with 2 green dots but no S/N ... when this occurs project builds will not load ... (Device Not Found errors)
 
 
2) PC2: Pickit 3 shows up under the MPLAB X Project Hardware Tool with 2 green dots PLUS a S/N ... project builds load & run with no problem
 
3) USBView: both PC1 & PC2 show that there are 70 identical lines of USB header info for the PicKit 3 when connected to USB 3.0 ports (Info includes the S/N) ... USB 2.0 ports also show the same info
 
4) PC1: PICKit 3 V3.0 S/W in OS Mode: can see the S/N, PLUS both Read and Write to Chip(s) in the PICDEM LAB via the Pickit 3 ... Note of interest: when switching to OS Mode, another USB Driver was installed
 
The results of my 2nd test finally proved to me that the PicKit 3, the PICDEM, and the Chip(s) being Programmed were all functioning ... up until that point I had no idea what was wrong ... this required pulling a machine out of the grave yard doing a clean install then loading all the current Microchip Tools
 
The results of tests 3 and 4 prove to me that the NEC 3.0 USB ports work fine with the PicKit 3
 
These results lead me to believe MPLAB X (last 3 versions) has an issue with either how it is using the NEC 3.0 driver OR perhaps should be using the same driver that the PICKIT V3.0 loaded in OS Mode.
Please don't flame this old dinosaur because most of his stuff especially W7 and PICKIT 3 are at EOL ... just reasonably frustrated that things that work, can still fail, seemingly, because of "UPDATED" software!!! Yes, there are way too many products out there to be 100% ... this may even be the result of a MS update ... regardless ... odd that PICKIT V3.0 Software Designers provided/used a different USB driver ... perhaps they were aware of an issue and didn't share that info?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
#1

7 Replies Related Threads

    ric
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    Re: Issue with MPLAB X connection to Pickit 3 via NEC USB 3.0 (no S/N ... no Connection) 2019/11/17 02:13:40 (permalink)
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    I've seen various reports over the last few years of problems with PK3 and USB3 ports.
    Possibly keeping an old USB2 hub to go between the PC and the programmer would be a workaround.

    I also post at: PicForum
    Links to useful PIC information: http://picforum.ric323.co...opic.php?f=59&t=15
    NEW USERS: Posting images, links and code - workaround for restrictions.
    To get a useful answer, always state which PIC you are using!
    #2
    Gort2015
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    Re: Issue with MPLAB X connection to Pickit 3 via NEC USB 3.0 (no S/N ... no Connection) 2019/11/17 05:41:41 (permalink)
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    I think it's down to old motherboards.
    Has anyone had a PK working with USB3?
     
    Works fine with USB2 and takes around 4 seconds to write a large project using a PK4.
    The PK3 used to take around a minute, I could roll a joint in that time.

    MPLab X playing up, bug in your code? Nevermind, Star Trek:Discovery will be with us soon.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu1qa8N2ID0
    + ST:Continues, "What Ships are Made for", Q's back.
    #3
    bxdobs
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    Re: Issue with MPLAB X connection to Pickit 3 via NEC USB 3.0 (no S/N ... no Connection) 2019/11/17 15:32:02 (permalink)
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    ric ... I have a 4port USB 2.0 hub ... tried it ... still no go ... not unexpected since MPLAB X is still talking through the NEC 3.0 hub drivers.
     
    Gort2015 ... I have a collection of machines MS DOS6, W95, W98, 2000, XP and W7, that I can go to if need be ... BUT ... this PICDEM Lab/PK3 Kit originally worked with my 10 yr old W7 PC so wasn't expecting to have to resurrect older machines to do a simple project
     
    Some more details:
    Wireshark and Device Monitoring Studio (DMS) both show that W7 is properly connecting and getting the USB Header Info from the PK3 when it is plugged in via the NEC 3.0 Ports ... yet ... when MPLAB X is started, it polls for a PK3 USB device, AND, although the PK3 appears to sends MPLAB X the correct DEVICE ID as a response,  MPLAB X doesn't request the PK3 Header Info (which includes the S/N)
     
    When the PK3 is plugged in to a non NEC 3.0 port, MPLAB X does request the PK3 Header Info
     
    Everything I have done so far points at MPLAB X ... these 2 Sniffer results, to me, further implicate MPLAB X not handling some initial handshaking and or port metrics/configuration properly for this situation ... DMS traces show identical responses are being sent by the PK3 to MPLAB X when connected to either NEC or Non NEC ports.
     
     
     
    #4
    dan1138
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    Re: Issue with MPLAB X connection to Pickit 3 via NEC USB 3.0 (no S/N ... no Connection) 2019/11/17 16:35:56 (permalink)
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    I have had issues using the PICKit3 when USB suspend mode goes active.

    This happened with a W10 machine. The symptoms were that the PK3 worked fine until idle for a bit then MPLAB could not use it until I did a logout or reboot.

    The workaround is a registry edit to turn off suspend for the USB device instance.
    #5
    JPortici
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    Re: Issue with MPLAB X connection to Pickit 3 via NEC USB 3.0 (no S/N ... no Connection) 2019/11/17 23:41:37 (permalink)
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    Gort2015
    I think it's down to old motherboards.
    Has anyone had a PK3 working with USB3?



    Yes, all the time with my MBP mid 2012, my NUC7i5BNK and all the laptops at work (various dell PCs and laptops with also powered docking stations from dell)
    #6
    MisterHemi
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    Re: Issue with MPLAB X connection to Pickit 3 via NEC USB 3.0 (no S/N ... no Connection) 2019/11/18 01:03:46 (permalink)
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    dan1138
    I have had issues using the PICKit3 when USB suspend mode goes active.

    This happened with a W10 machine. The symptoms were that the PK3 worked fine until idle for a bit then MPLAB could not use it until I did a logout or reboot.

    The workaround is a registry edit to turn off suspend for the USB device instance.



    I don't think the issue is isolated only to Windows. I have a PicKit3 which I use with Mac OS and when I haven't used it for a while often I have problems. I have to disconnect the USB cable and close MPLAB X, reconnect the USB cable and start MPLAB X again, then it's fine again.
     
    It seems to happen sometimes and only when it's been idle for a few hours.

    My configuration:
    MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015) with MacOS High Sierra (10.14.5) and MPLAB X IDE v5.20
     
    Curiosity PIC32MZ EF, PIC24F Curiosity, XPRESS EVAL BOARD (PIC16F18855), SAMA5D3 Xplained and various custom boards.
    #7
    Maldus
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    Re: Issue with MPLAB X connection to Pickit 3 via NEC USB 3.0 (no S/N ... no Connection) 2019/11/18 02:03:41 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    bxdobs
    Not expecting a solution here ... hoping this information may help others in the future who trip over this issue

    This is very helpful. I might have stumbled on this problem without knowing it!
     
    bxdobs
    These results lead me to believe MPLAB X (last 3 versions) has an issue with either how it is using the NEC 3.0 driver OR perhaps should be using the same driver that the PICKIT V3.0 loaded in OS Mode.
    Please don't flame this old dinosaur because most of his stuff especially W7 and PICKIT 3 are at EOL ... just reasonably frustrated that things that work, can still fail, seemingly, because of "UPDATED" software!!! Yes, there are way too many products out there to be 100% ... this may even be the result of a MS update ... regardless ... odd that PICKIT V3.0 Software Designers provided/used a different USB driver ... perhaps they were aware of an issue and didn't share that info?

    It certainly fits Microchip's modus operandi to distribute broken products and pretend everything is ok.
    #8
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