Hot!Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4

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tonyd5
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2019/01/16 05:49:01 (permalink)
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Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4

I am using a PIC16F676 for a project at work. I have a PICKit4 programmer.
 
I am using the DIP package for debugging/developing the setup.
The customer is using the SOIC package though.
 
According to the data sheet these have equivalent pin-outs.
 
The SOICs are mounted on SMT to DIP headers:
                               
 
The flux has been clean offed with alcohol
Continuity has been checked.
I have 3 programming set ups:
  • Demo board
  • PCB socket
  • Breadboard
All work with the DIP.
I have multiple SMT samples and none of them work.
 
Is there any reason why I cannot program the SMT package?
 
Thanks
Tony.
 
 
#1

79 Replies Related Threads

    MBedder
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    Re: Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4 2019/01/16 09:46:39 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    Highly likely this is a well known driver problem. The driver name is either HANDS.sys or BRAIN.dll LoL
    #2
    jack@kksound
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    Re: Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4 2019/01/16 10:01:18 (permalink)
    +3 (3)
    I have multiple SMT samples and none of them work.

    Do they just fly around the room instead? Maybe glow a bright orange? We really need more detail of "don't work".
    Are you getting an error message? What might it be? Are you using ANYTHING different in the two setups? (beside the pic)? Cables, sockets, etc.?
    #3
    tonyd5
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    Re: Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4 2019/01/16 10:19:22 (permalink)
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    The setup is exactly the same. I get 0 for the device ID.
    #4
    tonyd5
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    Re: Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4 2019/01/16 10:29:28 (permalink)
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    I can't find either of those drivers in my C drive.
     
    #5
    jack@kksound
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    Re: Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4 2019/01/16 10:33:16 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    A zero (0) device Id is usually the result of improper connections, loads on the ICSP pins or unacceptable values of capacitance/inductance in the programming lines (long wires, etc.).
    #6
    jack@kksound
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    Re: Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4 2019/01/16 10:51:53 (permalink)
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    MPLABX v5.10 Device Support lists the pic16F676 as beta (preliminary) support under the Pickit 4 programmer column. Maybe an issue?
    #7
    MBedder
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    Re: Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4 2019/01/16 11:09:18 (permalink)
    -2 (2)
    tonyd5I can't find either of those drivers in my C drive.
    Your bad. Try using a mirror then LoL


    #8
    Mysil
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    Re: Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4 2019/01/16 11:26:45 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    Hi,
    I suggest mounting a power decoupling capacitor directly on the SOIC header board together with PIC.
    You may try with PICkit 3 instead of the 4, if one is available.
    Wire the Programmer ICSP lines directly to header board, instead of routing thru breadboard or socket.
    In MPLAB X settings for PICkit 4, there is a selection for reduced signaling frequency for ICSP.
     
        Mysil
    #9
    GERSEI
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    Re: Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4 2019/01/17 09:32:42 (permalink)
    0
    From my own experience, Pickit4 is very sensitive to PGC & PGD pull-up / pull-down settings that you'll find in the Project Properties / Pickit4  in MPLAB X.  Maybe a track down there ...?
    #10
    tonyd5
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    Re: Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4 2019/01/17 09:39:43 (permalink)
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    4.7k pull down for both
    #11
    tonyd5
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    Re: Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4 2019/01/17 09:46:08 (permalink)
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    wait wait... does that mean I need a 4.7k pull down on the programming pins???
     
    #12
    Mysil
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    Re: Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4 2019/01/17 09:57:49 (permalink)
    0
    No,
    There is a setting in MPLAB X 'Project properties' for PICkit 4 'Program Options'
    that should be set to: 'Pull Down'   4.7 kOhm.
     
    In PICkit 2 and PICkit 3, there are hardwired pull down resistors in the programmer.
     
        Mysil
    #13
    tonyd5
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    Re: Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4 2019/01/17 10:03:13 (permalink)
    0
    Ok, that's what its set at. 
    #14
    tonyd5
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    Re: Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4 2019/01/21 05:59:14 (permalink)
    0
    I Set the program pins from 'pull down' to 'none'.
    Then put 4.7k pull down resistors at the part pins. 
     
    Works for the DIPs. SOICs still won't program.
     
    I mounted a DIP part to header as well to see if that was the issue. It works fine.
     
    Also I have confirmation that these parts are not counterfeit.
    #15
    jack@kksound
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    Re: Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4 2019/01/21 09:22:37 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    Maybe the orientation of the SOIC parts on the adapter (header) is incorrect?
    #16
    Aussie Susan
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    Re: Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4 2019/01/21 18:34:23 (permalink)
    +2 (2)
    When you say that continuity has been checked, do you mean from each pin of the plug for the programmer to the chip pin *right next to the body* for all 14 pins?
    Susan
    #17
    crosland
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    Re: Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4 2019/01/22 06:40:23 (permalink)
    0
    Did you read post #9?
     
    Did you follow the recommendation?
    #18
    tonyd5
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    Re: Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4 2019/01/22 08:28:42 (permalink)
    0
    I've tired everything. 
     
    Trust me the continuity is fine, I checked that way before posting here.
     
    -program speed at as the slowest. 
    -I have decoupling caps.
    -I've tried it connected directly to the header.
    -The DIP parts always work, even when mounted on a header, so the header is not the issue here.
     
    I need to get my hands on a PICkit 3.
    #19
    Jim Nickerson
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    Re: Cannot Program SOIC PIC, but the DIP works fine. PIC16F676, PICKit4 2019/01/22 09:18:50 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    Can you put a 4 channel scope or logic analyzer on Vdd, MCLR, ICSPCLK, ICSPDAT and show the trace as the Pic Kit 4 starts trying ?
    #20
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