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davegsm82
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2018/10/31 05:12:31 (permalink)
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THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!)

I've seen this question asked numerous times over many forums, but there's never an actual answer forthcoming, or the question gets muddied by people thinking that the question is about the already available IPE Software.

So, The PK2 and PK3 had thier own dedicated software package which was brilliant and lightweight, worked reasonably well and had good basic features like Auto-updating/downloading when the source file changed. 

Are MICROCHIP planning a similar SW for the PK4? I've got the PK4, but the IPE is horrible to use, and I can't for the life of me work out how you get it to auto-download as I described above. It's buggy, crashes and you have to KEEP ON TICKING THE SAME BOXES OVER AND OVER! Can anyone shed light on this?

Dave.
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    JPortici
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    Re: THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!) 2018/10/31 05:37:16 (permalink)
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    IDGAF of the pickit app, but it would be nice if it would be possible to download the IPE only. IPE does everything i'll ever need and more
    #2
    DevMod1
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    Re: THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!) 2018/10/31 09:24:30 (permalink)
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    No, there is no other program than IPE.  
     
    The IPE can be installed by itself during the MPLAB X install, but there is no download for the IPE only.  You have to download the MPLAB X and then you can install the IPE by itself.

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    #3
    davegsm82
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    Re: THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!) 2018/10/31 09:36:43 (permalink)
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    DevMod1
    No, there is no other program than IPE.  
     
    The IPE can be installed by itself during the MPLAB X install, but there is no download for the IPE only.  You have to download the MPLAB X and then you can install the IPE by itself.




    I get this, I don't even mind having to download X just to get the IPE, if only the IPE was as good for prototyping as the old PK2/3 software was, but it isn't.

    So if we're stuck with IPE, HOW do you get it to Auto-download when the source Hex file changes? I see no option for that. 

    Dave.
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    MBedder
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    Re: THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!) 2018/10/31 09:45:25 (permalink)
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    Gigabytes of a shjt-coded software for just banging 3 slow ICSP lines? Are you getting nuts, Mr. World??
     
    Why don't you hire one professional programmer and fire those dumb part-timers who wrote all that incredible monster shjt including MPLABX and IPE?
    #5
    NKurzman
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    Re: THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!) 2018/10/31 09:56:48 (permalink)
    5 (1)
    MBedder
     
    Blame the Mac and Linix Users that wanted to run Mplab on their OS.
    Blame the Cool feature hunters that need bells whistles and Plug-in so that making a New IDE is an large Project.
    And the Been counters and Techies that Chose Netbeans.
    And Blame Sun for Net Beans and Java.
     
    I think someone Posted their own IPE program.  That may get PICK4 if you ask.
    And the API to the Programmers is  (was?) Published I think you can make you own programs with it.
    #6
    jtemples
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    Re: THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!) 2018/10/31 10:07:11 (permalink)
    5 (1)
    Auto-updating/downloading when the source file changed.

     
    It's not clear what you mean by "source file" or "auto downloading".
    #7
    NKurzman
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    Re: THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!) 2018/10/31 10:21:02 (permalink)
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    jtemples
    Auto-updating/downloading when the source file changed.

     
    It's not clear what you mean by "source file" or "auto downloading".


    I think it means it Programs as soon as Vcc is detected from the PIC.
    #8
    MBedder
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    Re: THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!) 2018/10/31 10:26:31 (permalink)
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     The OP definitely meant the auto downloading feature of PICkitX which optionally flashes the HEX file to a target after a successfull build.
    post edited by MBedder - 2018/10/31 10:51:21
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    MBedder
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    Re: THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!) 2018/10/31 10:46:05 (permalink)
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    NKurzmanBlame the Mac and Linix Users that wanted to run Mplab on their OS.
    I'd rather blame them in not being aware of Parallels, Wine and such.
     
    NKurzmanBlame the Cool feature hunters that need bells whistles and Plug-in so that making a New IDE is an large Project.
    I'm not in their gang. Let'em grab all that stuff out and leave the pure working thing for me and for a vast majority of other non-Cool-feature-hunters.
     
    NKurzmanAnd the Been counters and Techies that Chose Netbeans. And Blame Sun for Net Beans and Java.
    Who are all that guys and gals?
     
    NKurzmanI think someone Posted their own IPE program.  That may get PICK4 if you ask.
    I've only seen the PICkit2+/3+ topics - do you mean that?
     
    NKurzmanAnd the API to the Programmers is  (was?) Published I think you can make you own programs with it.
    No thanks. When I buy a car I wouldn't like to build the DIY engine to be able to drive that car.
    #10
    davegsm82
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    Re: THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!) 2018/10/31 10:51:27 (permalink)
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    MBedder
     The OP definitely meant auto downloading the HEX file to a target immediately as the HEX file gets updated after the source is built successfully.




    Yes, exactly MBedder, I use MikroC a lot of the time and as soon as you build successfully, the hex file is updated and PK2/3 used to see that change, reload the file and flash that down to the target. IPE does nothing of the sort, you have to manually program each time. 
     
    #11
    Jerry Messina
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    Re: THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!) 2018/10/31 11:29:32 (permalink)
    4 (2)
    If you can get MikroC to run a command after a build, then you can use the command-line IPECMD program to load the hex file and program it... no need to use the IPE gui.
     
    #12
    NorthGuy
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    Re: THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!) 2018/10/31 11:38:22 (permalink)
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    We have decent software which is easy to use and also fast:
     
    https://www.northernsoftware.com/nsdsp/soft/
     
    It only works with our NSDSP programmers.
     
    #13
    davegsm82
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    Re: THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!) 2018/11/01 10:39:36 (permalink)
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    Jerry Messina
    If you can get MikroC to run a command after a build, then you can use the command-line IPECMD program to load the hex file and program it... no need to use the IPE gui.
     




    I've had a look but it appears there's no way of doing this in MikcoC :(
    #14
    davegsm82
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    Re: THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!) 2018/11/13 15:08:51 (permalink)
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    MBedder
     The OP definitely meant the auto downloading feature of PICkitX which optionally flashes the HEX file to a target after a successfull build.




    I would just like to add to this, The IPE appears to know when the file has been changed. If I build the PIC program, IPE pipes up, flashes a dialog box over whatever you're working on and says "source file has changed, reload?" but then you still have to click into IPE and click program. 
    #15
    Sudheer Herle
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    Re: THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!) 2019/01/17 21:02:01 (permalink)
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    davegsm82
    MBedder
     The OP definitely meant auto downloading the HEX file to a target immediately as the HEX file gets updated after the source is built successfully.




    Yes, exactly MBedder, I use MikroC a lot of the time and as soon as you build successfully, the hex file is updated and PK2/3 used to see that change, reload the file and flash that down to the target. IPE does nothing of the sort, you have to manually program each time. 
     


    IPE knows the hex file has changed. But it does not automatically program, it asks.
    #16
    Sudheer Herle
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    Re: THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!) 2019/01/17 21:03:54 (permalink)
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    May be an advanced mode setting "Auto program when hex file changes" checkbox will help.
    #17
    Sudheer Herle
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    Re: THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!) 2019/01/17 21:05:55 (permalink)
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    davegsm82
    I've seen this question asked numerous times over many forums, but there's never an actual answer forthcoming, or the question gets muddied by people thinking that the question is about the already available IPE Software.

    So, The PK2 and PK3 had thier own dedicated software package which was brilliant and lightweight, worked reasonably well and had good basic features like Auto-updating/downloading when the source file changed. 

    Are MICROCHIP planning a similar SW for the PK4? I've got the PK4, but the IPE is horrible to use, and I can't for the life of me work out how you get it to auto-download as I described above. It's buggy, crashes and you have to KEEP ON TICKING THE SAME BOXES OVER AND OVER! Can anyone shed light on this?

    Dave.




    When does the IPE crash?
    #18
    malaugh
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    Re: THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!) 2019/01/18 11:35:57 (permalink)
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    One suggestion is to use the command line executable ipecmd.  We use this in a batch file to automate our factory programming procedure.  Much easier for unskilled workers than using IPE and having to selecting the correct CPU and image file EVERY TIME YOU USES THE PROGRAM.
     
    We currently use ICD3s, and I am not sure if this program was updated to use an ICD4.  
     
    MBedder
    Gigabytes of a shjt-coded software for just banging 3 slow ICSP lines? Are you getting nuts, Mr. World??
     
    Why don't you hire one professional programmer and fire those dumb part-timers who wrote all that incredible monster shjt including MPLABX and IPE?



    Great question,
    Here is the way is goes.
    1) Write a pretty decent development environment that supports all your CPUs, has good support for USB, WiFi and Bluetooth middleware, but needs some improvement.
    2) Scrap it.
    3) Hire a bunch of Unix programmers with no embedded experience to write your new development environment.
    4) Have them write a development environment that generates code that looks like Unix that is not suitable for the embedded world and only they understand.
    5) Add in a few bugs to force the end users to dig through you code to figure out why it does not work.
    6) Make sure it runs really slow so users have enough time to get coffee.
     
    #19
    NorthGuy
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    Re: THE big question, Standalone programming PC software? (NOT IPE!) 2019/01/18 12:53:04 (permalink)
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    malaugh
    Great question,
    Here is the way is goes.
    1) Write a pretty decent development environment that supports all your CPUs, has good support for USB, WiFi and Bluetooth middleware, but needs some improvement.
    2) Scrap it.
    3) Hire a bunch of Unix programmers with no embedded experience to write your new development environment.
    4) Have them write a development environment that generates code that looks like Unix that is not suitable for the embedded world and only they understand.
    5) Add in a few bugs to force the end users to dig through you code to figure out why it does not work.
    6) Make sure it runs really slow so users have enough time to get coffee.



    7) Buy out the competitors to make sure there's no escape.
     
    #20
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