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Gort2015
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/10/29 10:42:02 (permalink)
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No point in re-inventing the wheel.
 
He came on here for an argument.
 
"addwf" was his previous thread and he couldn't even work that out.

MPLab X playing up, bug in your code? Nevermind, Star Trek:Discovery will be with us soon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu1qa8N2ID0
+ ST:Continues, "What Ships are Made for", Q's back.
#21
BLmicro
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/10/29 11:26:59 (permalink)
+2 (2)
Wow! The ignorance of this guy. Incredible. The 8 bit Pic is an amazing device, and speaking from an automotive standpoint, we are using an 18F to control a capacitive discharge distributor-less ignition for 4 stroke engines to 12,700rpm, 2 stroke engines as well. That device at 40MHz with its algorithm written in 100% Pic ASM doesn't miss a beat with individual cyl timing curves, traction control, variable power from real time controlled SMPS power supplies and more! Its now mated to a disPic33CH for full EFI and ignition with CAN messaging. PICs are simply amazing, and the best part of course... no OS! :-)
 
-BL
#22
Antipodean
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/10/29 14:40:55 (permalink)
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NorthGuy
The guy wanted to create a new language for PIC. He expected some sort of discussion. Instead, he's got offended from the start. This is certainly not very welcoming, but this sure is not a reason for him to get ballistic. May be it's somehow possible to start over and find peace?
 
There are lots of compilers - several basics, at least 3 different C compilers, pascal, yapl(?), others. In reality, not that many people use anything except for XC8 (and assembler perhaps). IMHO, if you want to come up with a new language, the very least you need to start is a working compiler.

 
And there is JAL, which was created specifically for 8 bit PICs. I believe it could 18F as well as 16F parts.

Do not use my alias in your message body when replying, your message will disappear ...

Alan
#23
PStechPaul
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/10/29 17:28:50 (permalink)
+2 (2)
This excerpt from his other thread may explain a lot:
By the way, i remember now that after some errors i installed a newer underlying java machine.
But the most affordable option may be i was drunk !!!
Excuse me, Alessandro.

Speaking of members who have gone off the rails - got this from our dear departed friend Dario:
Subject: dan1138 is as idiot as you :D
I have QUITE A LOT OF FUN seeing how you don't understand a f**k of
live, thics and so on!
--
Ciao, porcodio.


 
#24
dan1138
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/10/29 19:10:04 (permalink)
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PStechPaul
Speaking of members who have gone off the rails - got this from our dear departed friend Dario:
Subject: dan1138 is as idiot as you :D
I have QUITE A LOT OF FUN seeing how you don't understand a f**k of
live, thics and so on!
--
Ciao, porcodio.


I do not remember seeing that in a thread. Did you get that as a PM?
#25
qhb
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/10/29 19:14:40 (permalink)
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He emails those on his hit list. I stopped reading them.
 

Nearly there...
#26
JPortici
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/10/29 23:50:28 (permalink)
+1 (1)
This is so, so sad. I hope i'll never become this bitter, although i'm fan of 8-bitters (pun?)
#27
katela
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/10/30 05:38:17 (permalink)
+1 (1)
One need professional support when this bitter. It can become dangerous.

Free online Microcontroller Tutorials and Projects for Hobbyists and students. From beginners to advanced. Website: www.studentcompanion.co.za
YouTube Tutorials: https://www.youtube.com/StudentCompanionSA
#28
JPortici
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/10/30 05:44:20 (permalink)
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fits the political mindset of my country, sadly
#29
Jan Audio
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/10/30 05:52:06 (permalink)
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Lets make MPLAB-X replacement first.
How do you add the XC8,16&32 to a text editor ?
Last time they say : impossible not available.
 
All without JAVA and internet.
Also compatible with XP.
Fast booting.
 
Oh, now i remember : no debugger, i dont care.
post edited by Jan Audio - 2018/10/30 05:54:59
#30
1and0
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/10/30 06:43:47 (permalink)
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Jan Audio
Lets make MPLAB-X replacement first.

Make MPLAB v8 open-source and I'm sure someone will take it from there. ;)
 
 
#31
NKurzman
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/10/30 07:11:50 (permalink)
+1 (1)
Adding the compiler to many text editors is possible. It may have been easier in the past with packages like Code View.
Debugging would be the issue.
#32
PeterAwsmtek
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/10/31 14:57:10 (permalink)
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Ok.
He came to us and said that he finaly got - C is not good to PIC and has provided an idea of new sintax.
Hm.. I think language does not make sense. The compiler does.
And C language is something very common. What for to make new language?
But there is no reason to start fighting guys )))
#33
jtemples
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/10/31 14:59:41 (permalink)
+2 (2)
How do you add the XC8,16&32 to a text editor ?

 
Get a programmer's editor and use make.  I only use the IDE for debugging.
#34
BLmicro
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/11/01 08:17:40 (permalink)
+3 (3)
jtemples
How do you add the XC8,16&32 to a text editor ?

Get a programmer's editor and use make.  I only use the IDE for debugging.



I remember when I developed that way, swore by it too! Nothing but Vi and make, old school. But then IDEs started getting really good and I couldn't pass up the speed they offered in dereferencing variables, functions, code completion and more. Then tying into the debugger and source control and documentation, config stuff, oh my, thank goodness for IDEs. Can't imagine going back. Now I use MPLABX for all projects, no matter the chip or OS (with a few exceptions) even if just for its ability to parse a project's source hierarchy and edit text. The Call tree is really cool and helps understand a project coming in from scratch.
 
But I did get to know Vi really really good at the time! Lol!
 
-BL
#35
Brane2
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/11/06 00:17:51 (permalink)
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I think you might have something there.
 
After all this effort I invested into it, it seems that:
 
- MPLAB_X is too bloated to be really usefull
- same goes for all the libraries i tried. They try to cover too wide an area ( from smallest 8-bit micros to PIC32) to be able to efficiently utilize hardware with the source thet is sparse and easy to read. And above all, they are full of bugs.
What's the use of the library that one has to reparse through his eyebals several times before use ?
 
-same goes for XC compilers. C/C++ might be optimal solution for beefier chips with MMU and real multitasking OS with virtual memory ( Linux etc), but for micros it's often hassle even if it would work as advertised. Which it is not - bugs are crawling all over the place. What good is having a compiler if one has to browse through generated instructions to chase bugs ?
 
And it's not like PIC32 instructions can't be used manually in assembly. At least this way I don't have to "draw a picture" to compiler about what I want to do, and I can do it efficiently in assembler.
 
PIC12/16 assembly is heavier on the eyeballs but still, with little self-discipline it is possible to develop a system that can be efficient and readable.
 
I don't see  much of the use of C portability in microcontrollers. Cores don't change every 15 minutes and when they do, someone has to inspect the changes and to check the code anyway.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
#36
Brane2
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/11/06 00:25:04 (permalink)
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Just one more detail that has been pointed to bazzilion times:
 
I have old laptop that used to have 4GB  RAM. One would think that is more than enough for using IDE for programming a microcontroller. With MPLAB_X and WIn10 combo, not really.
 
I had to expand it to 8 Gig. Result: When I start MPLABX after Win 10 boot and open smallish demo in MPLABX, I am at the point of almost 50% of RAM useage, out of which roughly 1Gig goes for MPLABX/java combination. 
That is, before it goes insane with memory allocation.
 
 
#37
Brane2
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/11/06 00:40:47 (permalink)
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At least for my use case an optimal solution would be a lean and mean IDE that uses some kind of "human assembly".
 
BY that I mean something that is effectively an assembler but with convenient macro-like tools that would make it possible for one to not spell-out directly the name of every register on machine ( if/when that can be avoided) and to be able to use some symbolics, like " a = b/c +2 " etc.
 
I personally would love to see debugging protocols to open so that open-source tools could be used.
 
 
#38
__angelo__
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/11/06 02:44:20 (permalink)
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In the firmware world, if you can stay in C it is the best choice at my opinion. You reinvest your skill in any other mcu/project. And at least x8-cc with optimizations enabled seems good enough and save yourself  from pic assembly (i can program in assembly of course, but i prefer not, in particular with 64 banks pics). It's a pity the fact optimizations are enabled only under payment, especially now that AVR is also sold from microchip, for new designs it is probably much better to move directly to avr and avr-gcc :).
post edited by __angelo__ - 2018/11/06 02:46:24
#39
Brane2
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Re: Pic Programming Language 2018/11/06 03:20:15 (permalink)
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Human assembly wouldn't be that bad.
 
It would hide most of ugly stuff under thin layer and that layeer could be uncovered at any time if/when needed.
 
C is crap for these things. All those "optimisations" look questionable to me.
#40
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