Hot![Solved] : PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx

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TS9
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2018/09/27 01:38:53 (permalink)
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[Solved] : PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx

Hello,
 
I am working on PIC32MZ2048EFM144 and Designed PCB in Double Layer.
Have Below Features:
1) PIC32MZ LCC  (Length Matching will tolerance of 10mm )
2) Dual CAN Interface
3) Dual MicroSDCards
4) Ethernet
5) USB                (Length Matching will tolerance of 10mm )
6) SQI Memory    (Length Matching will tolerance of 10mm )
7) LED and Switches .
8) Decoupling Capacitors at Bottom Side
 
I have read 2.9.1.2PCB Layout Recommendations from Datasheet (DS60001320D-page 40).
 
1)   Is it good to design and make PCB with Double Layer ?
2)   I have also implemented PIC32MZ LCC . But My TFT has not LCD_Chip pin . How EBI will work without EBICS pin ?
 
Please Check Attachment ...
 
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post edited by TS9 - 2018/11/30 05:42:33

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#1

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    muellernick
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    Re: PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx 2018/09/27 02:02:42 (permalink)
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    Are you serious?
    10 mm length matching?! What kind of match is that? For masonry work?
    And two layers?
     
    That is funny!
     
    Nick
    #2
    TS9
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    Re: PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx 2018/09/27 02:06:57 (permalink)
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    That is funny!

    May be .....   Thanks for update ..... I am asking for suggestions ...
     
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    #3
    JPortici
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    Re: PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx 2018/09/27 02:31:41 (permalink)
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    Hi, next time use the proper section for starting a thread (in this case "General PIC32 Topics")
    10mm lenght matching in this case is like not having lenght matching, at all.
     
    Double sided? Given enough board space you can probably make it. How well it will work, i can't say.
    In a tight board, no. Four layers minimum, at least one internal layer as ground plane.
     
    In case you are trying to design a devboard, don't. Use an existing devboard, it will save you time and money in the end. Also if the board is officially supported it will help you with firmware development, too.
    #4
    TS9
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    Re: PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx 2018/09/27 03:59:25 (permalink)
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    Thanks

    Hi, next time use the proper section for starting a thread (in this case "General PIC32 Topics")

    Sorry my mistake ...

    10mm lenght matching in this case is like not having lenght matching, at all.

    How much should be ?

    Double sided? Given enough board space you can probably make it. How well it will work, i can't say.

    Space is not a problem for .. Please Check attachment 3D View Top Side ..

    In case you are trying to design a devboard, don't. Use an existing devboard, it will save you time and money in the end. Also if the board is officially supported it will help you with firmware development, too.

    No.. It's not development board .
    Thanks again ..
     
    2)   I have also implemented PIC32MZ LCC . But My TFT has not LCD_CS pin . How EBI will work without EBICS pin ?
     Any Update about this...
     
    Thanks for your concern ...
     
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    #5
    NKurzman
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    Re: PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx 2018/09/27 05:18:37 (permalink)
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    What about power and ground? Where are the decoupling caps?
    I am pretty sure the CS is optional. The horizontal and vertical sync lines control sync.
    #6
    TS9
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    Re: PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx 2018/09/27 06:44:50 (permalink)
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    @NKurzman

    What about power and ground? Where are the decoupling caps?

    Pin No 4 in Vcc and Pin No 3 in GND of TFT .
    Power and Ground are Tracks to MCU . No Separate Layer for that .
    Decoupling are on bottom Side . [Please check attachment].
    Have you experienced with Double Layer PCB with PIC32MZ and LCC?
     

    I am pretty sure the CS is optional. The horizontal and vertical sync lines control sync.

    Yes... Have you experienced LCC without EBICS Pin (LCD_CS) ?
     
    Thanks
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    post edited by TS9 - 2018/09/27 06:46:16

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    NKurzman
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    Re: PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx 2018/09/27 08:03:04 (permalink)
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    No I have not tried a two layer board since I would not expect it to work without issues.  I suppose it is possible. 
    Your Power and ground tracks will need to be thicker.
    4 layers is a problem, But SMD on 2 sides is not?
     
    I think it was that way on my original PCB, But I have moved to a Graphics chip.
    So I am not positive due to the time.
    #8
    TS9
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    Re: PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx 2018/09/27 11:46:58 (permalink)
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    NKurzman
    Your Power and ground tracks will need to be thicker.4 layers is a problem, But SMD on 2 sides is not? 

    Should I go for Double Layer PCB? with increasing the size of Power and Ground Layer(Copper Pouring).

    Yes , 4 Layer is much costiler and time span is much More 2 Layer.

    Thanks again

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    #9
    NKurzman
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    Re: PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx 2018/09/27 11:54:23 (permalink)
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    A 4 layer board with components on one side is more expensive than a 2 layer board with components on both sides? My supplier is different.
    #10
    JPortici
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    Re: PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx 2018/09/27 12:04:23 (permalink)
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    mine too. And the lead time is not different from the usual sources (2-3 days for not exotic 2 layer, 6-7 days for 4 layer) it's not like it's measured in weeks
    #11
    TS9
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    Re: PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx 2018/09/27 17:36:48 (permalink)
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    NKurzman
    A 4 layer board with components on one side is more expensive than a 2 layer board with components on both side?
    Yes.
    That's Why I prefer Double Layer.

    Thanks
    #12
    qhb
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    Re: PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx 2018/09/27 18:01:31 (permalink)
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    TS9
    NKurzman
    A 4 layer board with components on one side is more expensive than a 2 layer board with components on both side?
    Yes.
    That's Why I prefer Double Layer.

    That was a question, not a statement from NKurzman.
    #13
    NKurzman
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    Re: PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx 2018/09/27 18:19:52 (permalink)
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    That is why it ended with a Question mark.
    If I am miss-informed I would like to know.
    I would hate to make decisions based on false assumptions.
     
    Have you had successful high speed double layer designs before?
    I know they are possible, but a lot more difficult.
    #14
    qhb
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    Re: PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx 2018/09/27 18:28:26 (permalink)
    5 (1)
    NKurzman
    I know they are possible, but a lot more difficult.

    Translation: Means the PCB designer must have a very good knowledge of RF design principles to ensure low impedance power supply paths.
    #15
    TS9
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    Re: PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx 2018/09/27 20:29:29 (permalink)
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    NKurzman
    That is why it ended with a Question mark.If I am miss-informed I would like to know.I would hate to make decisions based on false assumptions. Have you had successful high speed double layer designs before?I know they are possible, but a lot more difficult.

    I have successfully designed Double Layer PCB with PIC32MX ( 80 MHz ) but not with PIC32MZ ( 200MHz)
    #16
    TS9
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    Re: PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx 2018/09/27 20:30:09 (permalink)
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    qhb
    NKurzmanI know they are possible, but a lot more difficult.

    Translation: Means the PCB designer must have a very good knowledge of RF design principles to ensure low impedance power supply paths.

    Ok
    #17
    muellernick
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    Re: PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx 2018/10/04 05:54:03 (permalink)
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    I have successfully designed Double Layer PCB with PIC32MX ( 80 MHz ) but not with PIC32MZ ( 200MHz)

     
    So you know better. But why do you ask?
     
    A board of this size costs about 3 € if you order 100 pcs. 4 layers with silk screening on both sides.
    I wouldn't even bother thinking about spending a few hours more for the layout just to reduce the board's cost and the expense of getting something unreliable.
    "Length match 10 mm" says it all.
     
    If I'd see a board like this, my response would be: "Hobbyist!" and end of story.
     
    Nick
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    NKurzman
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    Re: PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx 2018/10/04 09:54:32 (permalink)
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    IF you are doing a million units, then the extra NRE could pay off.
    It is possible to get it to work (in theory).
    Otherwise, some people need to burn a finger to tell that it is hot.
    #19
    TS9
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    Re: PIC32MZ PCB Design and LCC without EBICSx 2018/10/06 06:11:23 (permalink)
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    OK... @NKurzman and Nick...

    Can I slow down PIC32MZ MCU Speed @80MHz (as PIC32MX) . Will dual layer is sufficient ?

    I only have to take advantage of 512KB RAM for LCC..


    Thanks..
    #20
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