Hot!ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive

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Striplar
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2018/06/12 04:51:13 (permalink)
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ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive

I now have two ICD3s that don't work and it looks like it's on the output end of the programmer in both cases.
Both fail the Self Test but both are recognised by MPLAB-X, reporting back the serial number and asking if I want to swap when I choose the other one.
Looking on the back of the ICD3 RJ11 connector I can see that there's no activity on the PGC or PGD lines, they're stuck low at all times when I do the self test.
Does someone have a schematic for the output area of the board to save a lot of investigation? Presumably there's a dead driver chip on the board.
I've measured PGC and PGD to ground and I'm seeing 4k7 so it doesn't look like it's an issue with a suppression diode.
Has anyone successfully fixed one with this problem?
I've attached a photo of the back of the board.
Any help would be much appreciated.
#1

21 Replies Related Threads

    vjasinski
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    Re: ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive 2018/06/12 05:20:34 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    I had a problem a few years ago and MC replaced one at no charge. I don't think it was in warranty. No questions asked?
    Vince
    #2
    Striplar
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    Re: ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive 2018/06/12 06:22:20 (permalink)
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    Thanks Vince, but I've had these for years. I suspect I'm on my own with them.
     
    I can see the two lines go to a SN74LVC1T45 transceiver so I'll see if the signals are reaching that and if there's power to its pins. If that's all it is, I can probably fix it.
    #3
    Striplar
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    Re: ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive 2018/06/12 06:44:04 (permalink)
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    Ok, scratch PGC and PGD not toggling, I can now see that they do output a burst when I connect it to my target and try to program it. I'm looking right onto the legs of the IC I'm trying to program and I've tried a new chip just to prove that it's not a dead one.
    I guess the self test doesn't toggle the lines enough to see them on the oscilloscope without a digital storage scope.
     
    So I can see those lines doing their thing but it looks like MCLR remains high throughout. I don't know if that's right or not.
     
    If both PGC and PGD are cleanly switching, what else can be causing the issue? Is this a software issue after all? 
     
    This wouldn't be the first time that I've got the ICD3 into a state where it just wouldn't connect or self test, only for it to magically start working again. Is there some sort of reset that I can do or force the firmware to reload?
     
    #4
    vjasinski
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    Re: ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive 2018/06/12 07:40:36 (permalink)
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    Each new version of MPLabX seems to load new firmware to the ICD3. Maybe try an earlier version fo MPLabX. Also changing parts seems to update the firmware as well.
    Vince
    #5
    Striplar
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    Re: ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive 2018/06/12 08:14:37 (permalink)
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    Ok, I've just changed to another target board with a different processor and that programmed ok Switching back to the original board I get these errors now...
     
    Transmission on endpoint 2 failed
    Connection Failed.
    If the problem persists, please disconnect and reconnect the ICD 3 to the USB cable. If this does not fix the problem verify that the proper MPLAB X USB drivers have been installed.
     
     
    Reception on endpoint 1 failed (err = -10121)
    Connection Failed.
    If the problem persists, please disconnect and reconnect the ICD 3 to the USB cable. If this does not fix the problem verify that the proper MPLAB X USB drivers have been installed.
     
    It's beginning to look like it's something in the software if it can program one type and not another.
    #6
    DarioG
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    Re: ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive 2018/06/12 08:25:30 (permalink)
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    Overload, or bad grounding, maybe?

    GENOVA :D :D ! GODO
    #7
    DevMod1
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    Re: ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive 2018/06/12 09:02:52 (permalink)
    +2 (2)
    Please go ahead and SAR these units, we will replace them.
    Here is a link to help with the SAR.
     
    http://www.microchip.com/cisar/Home.aspx
     

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    #8
    Striplar
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    Re: ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive 2018/06/12 09:16:30 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    No, I've tried both ICD3 modules with two different targets and also the self test module and used different cables.
     
    The firmware seems to download ok, and the outputs PGC and PGD both toggle so I'm at a loss to know why these don't program the chips. I can see the lines switching right on the pins of the chip.
     
    I think there's an issue with the ICD3 hardware.
    #9
    NKurzman
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    Re: ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive 2018/06/12 09:24:49 (permalink)
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    Here is the Microchip trouble shooting guide:
     
    https://www.microchip.com/cisar/Home.aspx
     
    At the end it will let you know if they will swap it out.
    #10
    JorgeF
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    Re: ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive 2018/06/12 09:26:33 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    Hi
     
    How does it go with the "self-test board"?
    The self-test specifically check the PGC/PGD lines.
     

    Best regards
    Jorge
     
    I'm here http://picforum.ric323.com too!
    And it works better....
    #11
    Striplar
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    Re: ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive 2018/06/12 09:42:15 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    That's great, I've just completed the form and that seems to be a good service. I'll have to do it twice though, the system can't cope with multiple devices.
     
    #12
    Striplar
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    Re: ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive 2018/06/12 09:46:40 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    It fails the self test with a variety of different errors. I'm going to get it replaced for the $50 fee, that's a good deal and a lot cheaper than buying the overpriced ICD4
     
    #13
    NKurzman
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    Re: ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive 2018/06/12 10:50:08 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    The ICD4 is Faster than the ICD3 on Bigger PICs (ie PIC32MZ)
    I assume it is less noticeable with smaller PICs
     
    I guess you are on supposed to break one at a time Smile: Smile
    #14
    Striplar
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    Re: ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive 2018/06/13 01:06:52 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    I would have just bought an ICD4, but I think it's over priced. I'm sure it used to be much cheaper to get the old ICD versions, I think this is why Arduinos are so popular these days. Microchip ought to take a long hard look at the cost of these, they shouldn't be trying to make as much money from them in my opinion, it puts people off using their products.
    #15
    JorgeF
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    Re: ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive 2018/06/13 06:26:08 (permalink)
    +2 (2)
    Hi
    Striplar
    .... I think this is why Arduinos are so popular these days. Microchip ought to take a long hard look at the cost of these.....

    What kind of comparision is this?
    Arduino versus ICD3/4?
     
    They are not the same kind of tools.
    Arduino is a quite nice platform for hobbyists to get a play with microcontrollers without needing professional level knowledge and experience on the hardware details.
    OTOH programmers, debuggers and ICEs are development tools targeted at professional level users developing not only the firmware but also the hardware around the micro.
     
    I can accept that the ICD4 is a bit overpriced, but when we get a lifetime warranty that gets us a free replacement after several years of use, and sometimes abuse....
     
    Just my 2 cents of it....
    post edited by JorgeF - 2018/06/13 06:28:11

    Best regards
    Jorge
     
    I'm here http://picforum.ric323.com too!
    And it works better....
    #16
    NKurzman
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    Re: ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive 2018/06/13 10:10:28 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    Arduinos are an Atmel CPU with a Bootloader programmed in.  That is a zero hardware solution to a different Problem.  Atmel sells Debugger modules too.  How do you think the Arduino bootloader was developed?
    #17
    Striplar
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    Re: ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive 2018/06/15 04:46:15 (permalink)
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    Ok, an update on this... I'm still no further forward even though Microchip have sent me two replacement units under their $50 non-warranty replacement scheme.
     
    I've resisted plugging in the second one until I know what's going on.
     
    The first replacement unit behaves exactly in the same way as the ones I've sent back, so this has to be a software issue.
    I first tried the self test which fails with
     
    "Could not connect to the selected hardware tool. Please make sure the tool is not being used by another project in MPLAB X."
    It also shows the failure to test each line.
     
    I then decided to try to program my target since the ICD3 Test Interface Module could possibly have an issue. That fails with the following error...
     
    "Target voltage detected
    Target Device ID (0x0) is an Invalid Device ID. Please check your connections to the Target Device.
    Device Erased...
    Programming...
    The following memory area(s) will be programmed:
    program memory: start address = 0x0, end address = 0x191f
    configuration memory
    program memory
    Address: 0 Expected Value: 3180 Received Value: 0
    Failed to program device"
     
    I've changed the USB cable, uninstalled MPLAB-X V4.15 and tried it with V4.2 and also V3.65, all with the same result.
    I've uninstalled the Microchip WinUSB Device and it now is re-installed with V1.0.0.8 but that doesn't work
     
    I noticed that Windows updated very recently, and I'm beginning to wonder if the latest updates don't work with the ICD3 module. The module happily downloads the firmware for the selected chip, it's only when it actually goes to program the chip that it runs into trouble.
     
    Has anyone else got this problem? It just came out of the blue when I'd changed nothing.
     
    #18
    Striplar
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    Re: ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive 2018/06/15 07:32:38 (permalink)
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    I gave up on the main computer and tried my Laptop which is running Windows 7 and MPLAB-X V4.05
    I first programmed a PIC18F2480 project which was the last one run on that system as a production build and that worked fine with the new ICD3 even though the self test on the ICD3 Test Interface Module failed.
    I then switched to my new project with the PIC16F18345 chip and it programmed it with the Production build without downloading any new firmware. Trying it again with a debug build doesn't work, presumably because it downloaded new firmware that has a bug. I changed to a new chip and that makes no difference.
    Switching back to the other project it's happy again.
     
    So it would appear that there's something wrong in the firmware. Every time it changes to the PIC16F18345 firmware it won't connect. It's odd that it managed to program the chip once without changing the firmware, but that might just be because the two computers share the same files via Dropbox and it might have got confused.
     
    Has anyone else got an issue with the PIC16F18345 firmware? It's strange that this was working one minute and then not. It's almost as if someone at Microchip made a change to the firmware and as soon as that was automatically downloaded it all went wrong.
     
    Is there any way to roll back the firmware so I can try it without the latest changes?
    #19
    NKurzman
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    Re: ICD3 won't program or perform self test - PGC and PGD remain inactive 2018/06/15 09:26:39 (permalink)
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    MPLabX needs the Software is comes with.  To Rool Back the Firmware you need to use an older version of MPlabX.
    And I am assuming you are Only Using MplabX and Not using MPlab 8 at all.
    #20
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