Hot!Real Ice Temperature Limits [ Jim measured 85 F ambient ]

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Jim Nickerson
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2017/08/31 19:33:15 (permalink)
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Real Ice Temperature Limits [ Jim measured 85 F ambient ]

I have noticed recently intermittent/flaky operation while debugging with Mplab X 4.0 and PIC32MX795F512L
I got a second Real Ice on the chance it was failing.
The second did the same as the first.
"Reception on endpoint 3 failed", processor running, Appio quit and no breakpoints.
I think it is due to the ambient temperature.
We have had a heat wave recently in San Diego and when the ambient temperature gets above 85 F the Real Ice acts up.
My non contact thermometer reads 95 -97 F on the Real Ice case.
I change to the other unit and it works for a while and the same thing.
First thing in the morning it runs fine for hours, till the ambient temp rises.
I can not find any literature on the operating temperature limits for the Real Ice.
 
post edited by Jim Nickerson - 2018/09/26 09:14:08
#1

14 Replies Related Threads

    qhb
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    Re: Real Ice Temperature Limits 2017/08/31 19:49:28 (permalink)
    +3 (3)
    Put Real ICE in zip lock bag in the freezer.
    Use for 30 minutes or so while your second unit is in the freezer.
    Swap units :)
     
    #2
    Jim Nickerson
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    Re: Real Ice Temperature Limits 2017/08/31 20:04:46 (permalink)
    +2 (2)
    Good idea.
    I might settle for the fridge, I worry if I forget it in the freezer the temp change might cause problems when it comes out without a controlled warm up.
    For now I have been setting it aside while I use the other.
    I am considering a cpu cooler, heat sink, fan or even a peltier module sitting on top of the Real Ice.
    I have not taken it apart to see if I can put a heat sink on the hottest chip.
    Anyone got a picture of the insides of the Real Ice ?
    #3
    mbrowning
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    Re: Real Ice Temperature Limits 2017/08/31 20:15:25 (permalink)
    +2 (2)
    This is why, here in Florida, every lab bench has at least one fan. We use these cheap little things with fabric blades and no shroud. Work great, and if you touch it the fabric blades don't hurt. But sometimes it's hard to find a spot where they don't hit some wire or cable and make a racket.
     
    You could try taking the RealICE PCB out of the case - especially with a fan on it.

    Go Navy! Beat Army!
    #4
    du00000001
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    Re: Real Ice Temperature Limits 2017/09/01 01:56:55 (permalink)
    +2 (2)
    Couldn't find any picture about the innards.
    But even operating it unmodified but open should do the trick.
     
    As virtually any semiconductor is specified to at least 70 °C, something must be getting really hot.

    PEBKAC / EBKAC / POBCAK / PICNIC (eventually see en.wikipedia.org)
    #5
    grambo
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    Re: Real Ice Temperature Limits 2017/09/06 07:19:04 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    du00000001
    ... 
    As virtually any semiconductor is specified to at least 70 °C, something must be getting really hot.



    ...or it was designed at 25C and nobody checked the timing (or waveforms or etc...) at 40C.  Each chip could be doing their job just fine...  @QHB your quote from Feb. 2017 "Don't assume a conspiracy where simple incompetence is more likely. ;)" may be applicable here.  I'm with @du00000001 - pop the top off and you will at least ventilate the innards, could easily buy you 5C to 10C more ambient before it acts up.
     
    BTW, can you repeat the failure with MPLABX 3.61?  Let's not blame hardware until we've ruled out the recent SW change.
    #6
    Jim Nickerson
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    Re: Real Ice Temperature Limits 2017/09/06 07:35:41 (permalink)
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    I have a travel cooler for use in the car
    12 vdc Peltier cooling.
    I now place the Real ICE in the cooler, it is fortunate the High speed drivers have long cables.
    This keeps it running, the 12 v supply and the Peltier heat is a pain...
    I have opened a support trouble ticket.
    I have asked how to open the case without destroying the Real ICE etc, awaiting a MHCP Internal more detailed response.
    The first response is 

    There is no official temperature range the Real ICE is set to operate. I'll have to contact dev tools. Please await feedback.

    We do not recommend breaking off the Real ICE. You might want to watch YouTube videos on how people tear down phones. You might uncover some tips and tricks.

    There is no way to read the internal temperature of Real ICE processors.

    I will have to try with older Mplab X to compare, I think I will have to force a reversion to the older firmware in the Real ICE to be a fair comparison.
    I do agree, I think it should handle higher ambient temperatures, my PC does.
    I do think another 10 degrees would probably be enough, by that time I start dripping sweat on the keyboard.
    I am dreaming of the day when a USB 3 or Ethernet hot connect debugger ( at least for the PIC32 ) becomes available, likely via JTAG.
    #7
    du00000001
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    Re: Real Ice Temperature Limits 2017/09/06 08:47:49 (permalink)
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    There is no way to read the internal temperature of Real ICE processors.

     
    Given the integration these days, the processor might support some temperature measurement - - - while the software currently doesn't.
    Let's wait and see with which information "dev tools" comes up with Smile

    PEBKAC / EBKAC / POBCAK / PICNIC (eventually see en.wikipedia.org)
    #8
    qhb
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    Re: Real Ice Temperature Limits 2017/09/06 13:15:51 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    JANickerson
    ...
    I have asked how to open the case without destroying the Real ICE etc, awaiting a MHCP Internal more detailed response.
    The first response is 

    There is no official temperature range the Real ICE is set to operate. I'll have to contact dev tools. Please await feedback.
    ...

    Translation:
    Oops; no-one thought to check if it works when it's warm...
     
    #9
    NorthGuy
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    Re: Real Ice Temperature Limits 2017/09/06 13:23:44 (permalink)
    +4 (4)
    JANickerson
    We have had a heat wave recently in San Diego and when the ambient temperature gets above 85 F the Real Ice acts up. 



    You can move to Canada :)
    #10
    Jim Nickerson
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    Re: Real Ice Temperature Limits 2017/09/06 13:29:13 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    I was actually born in Edmonton, my mother has been complaining of the heat recently.
    Though I think of returning to the mosquitoes and snow or construction seasons I am quite happy to not deal with either after 30+ years here.
    Before I got old enough for medicare I was considering moving for the health care.
    --------------------------
    My window AC unit arrived today...
    #11
    NorthGuy
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    Re: Real Ice Temperature Limits 2017/09/06 17:50:12 (permalink)
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    JANickerson
    I was actually born in Edmonton, my mother has been complaining of the heat recently.
    Though I think of returning to the mosquitoes and snow or construction seasons I am quite happy to not deal with either after 30+ years here.
    Before I got old enough for medicare I was considering moving for the health care.
    --------------------------
    My window AC unit arrived today...



    I am about 100 miles (150 km) from Edmonton. My son moved to Vancouver. I bet he feels the same way as you do.
    #12
    Jim Nickerson
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    Re: Real Ice Temperature Limits 2017/09/07 13:53:56 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    I got the case open .
    The hottest chip is an LC245A Ti Octal Bus Transceiver.
    Ambient 82 f ( 28 c), LC245A  130 f ( 54 c )
    Fully 48 f (26 c ) above ambient after running hard for an hour with the case open
    The other chips are 104 - 109 f (40 - 43 c)
     
     
    #13
    Jim Nickerson
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    Re: Real Ice Temperature Limits 2018/09/26 09:12:56 (permalink)
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    We have had some recent heat here.
    My Real ICE acted up again, even with the case open.
    Support contacted me ( they said they have a backlog of cases ), they suggested the problem was USB related, asked that I try it on an older machine.
    I did with no difference.
    I installed a window AC unit and now it runs.
    I am looking into installing Solar panels to generate enough electricity to supply the AC, SDG&E power rates go up x4 for high usage.
    My conclusion: The Real ICE will not operate as intended above 84 degrees F ambient without external cooling.
    #14
    NKurzman
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    Re: Real Ice Temperature Limits 2018/09/26 16:11:51 (permalink)
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    Try a peltier device. Or one in a six pack cooler.
    #15
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