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Vendor ID, Product ID - When needed and restrictions?

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angelsix
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2010/12/03 04:41:58 (permalink)
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Vendor ID, Product ID - When needed and restrictions?

OK I have successfully got the USB HID Bootloader working and self-programming over USB now using the HIDBootLoader, and successfully programmed some code to test things.

Next stage is developing own code and application etc... and the first thing I am aware of is the (presumed) need to change the Vendor and Product ID to one of my own.

Is it legal and valid to use the MC VID and PID for the bootloader, as that is what it is, or if I change the bootloader code (which I have) do I need my own sub-PID?

Also, for the application code again do I need to have my own PID and what exactly are the limitations? The documentation only states it is governed by Arazona law, and a limit of 10,000 units. So what does that mean exactly - what would you have to do to violate Arazona law or break the terms?

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    chinzei
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    Re:Vendor ID, Product ID - When needed and restrictions? 2010/12/03 07:09:13 (permalink)
    +2 (1)

    USB.org regulates VID (/PID) to avoid conflict between USB devices, which come from many manufacturers.

    PC application and device driver identify USB devices using VID/PID. If your USB product has the same VID/PID as others, a wrong device driver may be assigned to your device. Or wrong PC application may fiddle your USB device in wrong way. This is VID/PID conflict.

    If it were just your personal project, and if the device wouldn't escape from your desktop, you could assign any VID/PID to your device, unless the VID/PID doesn't conflict with any other device, attached to your PC. In this situation, you can manage VID/PID fully.

    However, when you sell your device on the market, your device should have official unique VID/PID, so that it doesn't cause any conflict on your customers' PC.

    Fortunately, Microchip sublicense PIDs under their VID in free. Get a PID for your device.

    http://ww1.microchip.com/...USB%20VID%20082009.pdf

    Is it legal and valid to use the MC VID and PID for the bootloader, as that is what it is, or if I change the bootloader code (which I have) do I need my own sub-PID?

    If you have customized the bootloader for specific function of your own, you would better get a unique PID from Microchip. Also, another PID for the application firmware.

    The documentation only states it is governed by Arazona law, and a limit of 10,000 units. So what does that mean exactly - what would you have to do to violate Arazona law or break the terms?

    Don't take it so serious wink
    Unless Microchip would sue you for the excess usage, no one concerns. Do you think Microchip would really sue you, their good customer who buys more than 10k chips? Just to make you stop to buy the chip any more?

    The statement is just an advise. If you would deliver more than 10k units, you should earn good bucks to buy a VID from USB.org. And you'll get full range of PIDs, for your future products.

    "Getting a Vendor ID" on USB.org
    http://www.usb.org/developers/vendor/

    Tsuneo
    #2
    NKurzman
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    Re:Vendor ID, Product ID - When needed and restrictions? 2010/12/03 15:42:27 (permalink)
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    You Under stand why you need your own ID?
    The PC chooses the Driver based on that number.  If you use someone else's number the PC may install the wrong Driver.  Or install your driver for the real number owners device.
    #3
    angelsix
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    Re:Vendor ID, Product ID - When needed and restrictions? 2010/12/08 03:41:38 (permalink)
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    Thanks for the replies - yes I understand the need for one, it was more of just checking if there were any obvious violations of use I should be aware of. I have applied for a sub-PID now.
    #4
    hednast
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    Re:Vendor ID, Product ID - When needed and restrictions? 2012/04/08 20:54:04 (permalink)
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    So if we apply to MC for sub VID , are they any charges involved?
    #5
    DarioG
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    Re:Vendor ID, Product ID - When needed and restrictions? 2012/04/09 01:38:18 (permalink)
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    No, the sub VID are given for free.

    GENOVA :D :D ! GODO
    #6
    mvollmer
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    Re:Vendor ID, Product ID - When needed and restrictions? 2015/08/31 03:35:25 (permalink)
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    Currently i'm in the position that we had created a new Product with a PIC. We use the USB to Serial (CDC) to communicate with the pic. Our customers will be able to use the usb interface too. So what would be the right and best way to fully support this?
     
    Request a PID from MC. But after that you have to modify the inf file. In the next step a new cat file have to be created(done) and that have to be signed by microsoft for some $. Is that right?
     
    In Windows 10 its possible to use the usbser.sys drivers with a specific combination of USB_DEVICE_DESCRIPTOR parameters, so that the inf/cat file isnt needed. But how to do it in previously systems?
     
    it would be awsome if someone could tell me more about it and have some advices.

    with kind regards
    mvolllmer
     
    PIC Experience with PIC24FJ256GB110 and PIC32MX3XX_4XX Family
    #7
    NorthGuy
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    Re:Vendor ID, Product ID - When needed and restrictions? 2015/08/31 07:38:58 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    These are completely separate issues. You need VID/PID regardless of whether you have your own driver or not. Even if you don't use VID/PID at all to locate your device, you still need VID/PID. It is free from Microchip, and $4000 from usb.org last time I checked.
     
    A driver is required only if OS doesn't have a built-in one. If driver is not supplied, you can use user-side solutions such as libusb or WinUSB, but there could be a performance degradation compared to dedicated driver.
     
    Another solution is to select a USB device class which has built-in drivers everywhere, such as HID. It can do up to 64KBytes/s full duplex and decent built-in driver support is going back to WinXP, Linux 3.6, and OS X 10.5.
    #8
    mvollmer
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    Re:Vendor ID, Product ID - When needed and restrictions? 2015/09/10 07:20:56 (permalink)
    0 (1)
    Thanks you for the response, we've requested the PID form microchip and created our own modified driver. This works good for us. Our driver is signed by ourselves, so its just trusted in our intranet. We have to chip out our drivers with the hardware. Users will get a notify when installing the driver because the certificate cant be checked, but thats ok. Else we have to sign it by WHQL.
     

    with kind regards
    mvolllmer
     
    PIC Experience with PIC24FJ256GB110 and PIC32MX3XX_4XX Family
    #9
    NorthGuy
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    Re:Vendor ID, Product ID - When needed and restrictions? 2015/09/10 09:35:35 (permalink)
    0 (1)
    I think you can just purchase code signing certificate and use the certificate to sign the driver without WHQL.
    #10
    mvollmer
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    Re:Vendor ID, Product ID - When needed and restrictions? 2015/09/10 22:48:35 (permalink)
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    yes thats true, but in any case you have to pay yearly ;)

    with kind regards
    mvolllmer
     
    PIC Experience with PIC24FJ256GB110 and PIC32MX3XX_4XX Family
    #11
    JPortici
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    Re:Vendor ID, Product ID - When needed and restrictions? 2017/09/12 07:09:58 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    chinzei
    Fortunately, Microchip sublicense PIDs under their VID in free. Get a PID for your device.

    http://ww1.microchip.com/...USB%20VID%20082009.pdf



    is this still valid?
     
    http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/cn/DeviceDoc/cn025058.pdf
    http://www.microchip.com/usblicensing/
     
    #12
    NKurzman
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    Re:Vendor ID, Product ID - When needed and restrictions? 2017/09/12 08:14:36 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    No has posted it is not.  
    contact them
    #13
    mvollmer
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    Re:Vendor ID, Product ID - When needed and restrictions? 2017/09/12 23:11:19 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    http://www.microchip.com/usblicensing/
    this should still work. I used this serveral times.

    with kind regards
    mvolllmer
     
    PIC Experience with PIC24FJ256GB110 and PIC32MX3XX_4XX Family
    #14
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