Helpful ReplyHot!PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions

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mdelfede
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2018/03/02 02:34:53 (permalink)
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PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions

Hi,
 
I've got a board in production that requires the 120 MHz version of this controller.
My supplier bought them, and I found some boards that don't work reliably at 120 MHz but do at 96 MHz clock.
The marking on the chip shows nothing about the 120 MHz clock, but the datasheet says (more or less clearly) that the 120 number should be there.
Did my supplier bought the wrong version ? He showed me the purchase order and confirmation (from a well known supplier), and it says 120 MHz versions.
If the 120 number must not be there, how can I know the clock version from chip markings ?
 
Best regards
 
Massimo
 
#1
Larry.Standage
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Re: PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions 2018/03/08 13:28:04 (permalink)
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There is no marking difference between 120 MHz and non-120 MHz versions. The lot code on the package might, however, be traced to determine if it is. What is the code?
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RISC
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Re: PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions 2018/03/08 17:10:26 (permalink)
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Hi,
(corrected)
 
See datasheet page 362
PIC32MX470F512LT - XXX I/PT
For F <= 100MHz no speed marking  ==> PIC32MX470F512LT - I/PT
for F = 120MHz : 120 marked ==> PIC32MX470F512LT - 120 I/PT
 
Regards
 
 
post edited by RISC - 2018/03/09 15:52:27
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timijk
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Re: PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions 2018/03/08 19:12:09 (permalink)
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For different temperature ranges, the part number is different.
0C to +70C is PIC32MX470F512L(T)-120/xx
 
I am not sure if you can run the -40C to +85C (100MHz max) version to 120MHz.  If you can, why pay more for the 0C to +70C version.
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mdelfede
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Re: PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions 2018/03/09 01:19:40 (permalink)
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They have different prices, and sold as different products, so they should be different. About the marking code Ì'll try to get a couple of them from my provider.
About the pll, yes, of course, limits are xhecked and ok. The problem is that some boards run ok at 120 Mhz, but some requires the clock ti be slowed down to 96 Mhz for reliable operation
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mdelfede
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Re: PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions 2018/03/09 06:58:39 (permalink)
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timijk
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Re: PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions 2018/03/09 09:39:34 (permalink)
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If it's the official 120MHz version, you should see "-120" on the marking.
 
I in I/PT is the industrial version: 0C to 85C (100MHz).
 
You can check it in the section "Production Identification System"  in the datasheet.
 
post edited by timijk - 2018/03/09 09:43:51
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mdelfede
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Re: PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions 2018/03/09 09:43:05 (permalink)
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Wonderful, a question and 4 answers... all different one from another.
Which is the right one ?
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timijk
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Re: PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions 2018/03/09 09:51:48 (permalink)
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I think originally Microchip only has the 80MHz version, later on they add 100MHz, then 120MHz.  Datasheet has the revision history.
 
The datasheet gives the latest information.  On the product web site, you can see the exact part number for different versions.
 
In your pictures, the one with  I/PT or I/PF is the 100MHz version, the one without I/PT could be the 80MHz version.
 
I think you might overclock your 100MHz version to 120MHz, and 80MHz to 96MHz. 
 
 
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mdelfede
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Re: PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions 2018/03/09 10:01:02 (permalink)
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From pricing product page :
http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/PIC32MX470F512H
 
They're sold as DIFFERENT products and DIFFERENT price, so they should be different, isn't it ?
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timijk
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Re: PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions 2018/03/09 10:23:27 (permalink)
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That's probably how Microchip prices their products.  You can choose between speed or temperature ranges.
 
And they pre-select the production into different categories(after doing some tests) and set different prices, then let customers choose.
 
If you get the 120MHz 0C to 70C version, the quality is guaranteed by Microchip.  If you get the 100MHz or 80MHz versions, and try to run 120MHz, you have to do your own test.
 
++ you can test if your 120MHz version can run under the ambient temperature near 70C.
post edited by timijk - 2018/03/09 10:28:56
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mdelfede
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Re: PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions 2018/03/09 10:26:15 (permalink)
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The problem is that my producer bought some 120 MHz pics and, in my tests, some of them can't run at 120 MHz (bus errors and so on...), but do perfectly at 96 MHz.
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timijk
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Re: PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions 2018/03/09 10:32:49 (permalink)
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Your supplier ( or producer) might not know the differences.  They might think the differences are only the temperature ranges and gave you the wrong product.
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mdelfede
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Re: PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions 2018/03/09 10:35:04 (permalink)
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They were bought from a well-known supplier, and I've seen the bill. It says clearly 120 MHz version.
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timijk
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Re: PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions 2018/03/09 10:39:37 (permalink)
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I think the web site is misleading, it says 120MHz and Temperature Range - 40°C to 105°C.  But it's not for all the versions.  Your supplier could misunderstand the specs.
 
You can test if your 120MHz version can run under the ambient temperature near 70C.
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mdelfede
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Re: PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions 2018/03/09 10:43:18 (permalink)
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The tests were done at ambient temperature, around 20-22C
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simong123
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Re: PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions 2018/03/09 15:33:58 (permalink)
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Whilst I would normally defer to Larry's knowledge, in this case I think he is wrong. The datasheet clearly says that 120MHz versions are marked as such.
 
From your pics
1 is a 0-70DegC 100MHz
2 is a 0-70DegC 100MHz
3 is a -40-85DegC 100MHz
4 is a -40-85DegC 100MHz
 
I would have a word with your supplier. I don't care what the bill says, they've been supplied the wrong chips.
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maxruben
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Re: PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions 2018/03/09 16:27:57 (permalink)
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Note that some PICs (haven't checked if your) have higher minimum VDD at higher clock speeds. What is the value of VDD in your application?
 
/Ruben 
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Larry.Standage
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Re: PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions 2018/03/09 17:04:24 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mdelfede 2018/03/10 01:04:17
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The Product Identification System page is more for ordering information, and, unfortunately, has less to do with what is marked on the part.
 
I actually had some strongly-worded emails with the production team about putting the speed markings on the parts. Historically, prior to the 430/450/470 family, we put the speed on the part. However, they decided not to do it with this family onwards. I didn't like that, because I thought this very problem would come up. But I was basically tilting against windmills at that point.
 
Checking the lot code on the parts, the first two (1.jpg and 2.jpg, trace code 1630JQT) are 120 MHz parts, and were tested for it. The last two are not, and may only be tested for 80 MHz. The temp range is a bit of a giveaway, as the 120MHz is only available in the Commercial (0-70) temp range.
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mdelfede
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Re: PIC32MX470F512L/H marking on 120 MHz versions 2018/03/10 01:23:09 (permalink)
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Thank you very much... finally some light in the darkness !
Is there a way for us to check the speed from trace code, or the relative data is for interna usage only ?
#20
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